Transposition b flat treble clef to tenor clef

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:01 am

I have recently started playing b flat tenor trombone with a British Brass Band (again). Most of my dots are in treble clef B flat however we played a couple of marches and these were in tenor clef. Its been a (very) long time and I can't for the life of me remember how to transpose / read tenor clef to play on my bone.

I told the conductor I don't do tenor clef i'm still on page one of 'Tune a day'

Can someone please help and explain it in English.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:18 am

Well, in American if you can figure it out

The notes in tenor clef are in exactly the same spots as in treble clef. So the note

is

(G is F).

The problem comes because you have too many flats or too few sharps in the key signature (and they are in odd positions). Imagine the key signature to have two fewer flats or two more sharps and pretend they are where they should be for treble clef.

Another issue is some of the accidentals.

What looks like C flat is actually C natural. What looks like C natural is actually C sharp.

Same goes for F. What looks like F flat is actually F natural. What looks like F natural is actually F sharp.

If it really drives you crazy, make a copy of the music and mark up the "wrong" accidentals (they are actually right for Tenor Clef) and put a proper G clef and key signature on the left side.

For a Bb treble player, tenor clef is actually a lot easier than bass clef.

ttf_Jhereg · Post by **ttf_Jhereg** » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:33 am

I know this is an older post, but thank you anyway BG, because I needed to reference it today. I'm sightreading with a British-style brass band tomorrow evening, and while the trumpet treble-to-tenor clef transition is fine, it's the accidentals within the music that trip me up (how you describe Cb/# and Fb/#). Maybe thanks to your clear explanation I won't make a fool of myself!!

ttf_ddickerson · Post by **ttf_ddickerson** » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:49 am

Quote from: Jhereg on Nov 11, 2017, 07:33AMI know this is an older post, but thank you anyway BG, because I needed to reference it today. I'm sightreading with a British-style brass band tomorrow evening, and while the trumpet treble-to-tenor clef transition is fine, it's the accidentals within the music that trip me up (how you describe Cb/# and Fb/#). Maybe thanks to your clear explanation I won't make a fool of myself!!

Just lower the key signature two clicks. IOW, you can think of it as adding two flats. If Treble Bb is written in the key of C, so read as tenor clef and lower the key signature two clicks, or two flats - the key of Bb.

Or, just remember that the concert key is always one step lower than the Bb Treble part. If the Bb Treble part is written in G, then you play in the key of F.

ttf_Jhereg · Post by **ttf_Jhereg** » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:28 am

Quote from: ddickerson on Nov 11, 2017, 07:49AMJust lower the key signature two clicks. IOW, you can think of it as adding two flats. If Treble Bb is written in the key of C, so read as tenor clef and lower the key signature two clicks, or two flats - the key of Bb.

Or, just remember that the concert key is always one step lower than the Bb Treble part. If the Bb Treble part is written in G, then you play in the key of F.

So wait. Is it +2 flats/-2 sharps, or +2 sharps/-2 flats?? I thought I had it and now I'm confused again haha.
That aside, it's the in-staff accidentals that trip me up sometimes. Especially in modern music. Most of this will just be a matter of getting to sit down with the music and mark the accidentals that are troublesome.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:42 am

From Treble clef:

Add 2 flats or remove 2 sharps from the key signature.
A note that appears to be B# is actually B Natural. A note that appears to be E# is E natural. A note that appears to be B Natural is actually Bb. A note that appears to be E Natural is actually Eb.

From Tenor clef to Bb Treble:

Remove 2 flats or add 2 sharps to the key signature.
A note that appears to be Cb is actually C Natural. A note that appears to be Fb is F natural. A note that appears to be C Natural is actually C#. A note that appears to be F Natural is actually F#.

Hope this helps.

Megan: See if you can find a copy of the Mantila "Trombone Virtuoso" (it's on IMSLP) and work the clef exercises.

ttf_ddickerson · Post by **ttf_ddickerson** » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:34 am

The short version, is just remember that Bb instruments play one step key above concert. Convert C to Bb, and then you automatically know the key signature, as far as Hashtags vs Flats. Convert key of D to key of C, etc.

ttf_Jhereg · Post by **ttf_Jhereg** » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:19 am

Quote from: BGuttman on Nov 11, 2017, 08:42AMFrom Treble clef:

Add 2 flats or remove 2 sharps from the key signature.
A note that appears to be B# is actually B Natural. A note that appears to be E# is E natural. A note that appears to be B Natural is actually Bb. A note that appears to be E Natural is actually Eb.

From Tenor clef to Bb Treble:

Remove 2 flats or add 2 sharps to the key signature.
A note that appears to be Cb is actually C Natural. A note that appears to be Fb is F natural. A note that appears to be C Natural is actually C#. A note that appears to be F Natural is actually F#.

Hope this helps.

Megan: See if you can find a copy of the Mantila "Trombone Virtuoso" (it's on IMSLP) and work the clef exercises.

Oh my goodness. Thank you. I know this is completely idiotic and I should know this by now, but I just play this genre so rarely

Gonna look that part up right away!

ttf_Le.Tromboniste · Post by **ttf_Le.Tromboniste** » Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:37 pm

Quote from: Jhereg on Nov 11, 2017, 10:19AMOh my goodness. Thank you. I know this is completely idiotic and I should know this by now, but I just play this genre so rarely

Gonna look that part up right away!

Good simple trick. If you're transposing down, the key signature becomes lower so you add flats. If you transpose up, the key signature becomes higher so you add sharps

ttf_Bob Riddle · Post by **ttf_Bob Riddle** » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:11 am

Simple solution purchase a very simple trumpet songbook.Spend 3-5 minutes a day reading/playing from that book.Trumpet is a major 9th(an octave and one step)higher than trombone actual pitch.
Written C in the middle of the staff on trumpet is our Bb on top of the bass clef staff.
Written E top space trumpet is D immediately above the bass clef staff.
Written G 2nd line of trumpet part is 4th line F in bass clef.
Written C below the trumpet staff is 2nd line Bb for trombone.
By using this you will be playing one octave below the trumpet. It is also very similar to Tenor clef.
Simplest way to start I can think of.
Good Luck!
Bob

ttf_Jhereg · Post by **ttf_Jhereg** » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:38 am

Quote from: Bob Riddle on Nov 13, 2017, 06:11AMSimple solution purchase a very simple trumpet songbook.Spend 3-5 minutes a day reading/playing from that book.Trumpet is a major 9th(an octave and one step)higher than trombone actual pitch.
Written C in the middle of the staff on trumpet is our Bb on top of the bass clef staff.
Written E top space trumpet is D immediately above the bass clef staff.
Written G 2nd line of trumpet part is 4th line F in bass clef.
Written C below the trumpet staff is 2nd line Bb for trombone.
By using this you will be playing one octave below the trumpet. It is also very similar to Tenor clef.
Simplest way to start I can think of.
Good Luck!
Bob

Appreciate it!

The issue I mostly struggle with is transposing the written accidentals.

ttf_Bob Riddle · Post by **ttf_Bob Riddle** » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:25 am

Ok.
Remember written C in trumpet treble or tenor is Bb, C# is B natural.Written F in Trumpet treble or tenor is Eb, written F# is E natural.
Those are the two most confused. Also remember The key Signature on a trumpet part is one whole step higher than concert pitch.
Written Bb key is actually Ab concert. Written F in trumpet is Eb concert. Written Eb in trumpet is Db concert.
Hope this helps.
Bob

ttf_Jhereg · Post by **ttf_Jhereg** » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:59 pm

Quote from: Bob Riddle on Nov 18, 2017, 07:25AMOk.
Remember written C in trumpet treble or tenor is Bb, C# is B natural.Written F in Trumpet treble or tenor is Eb, written F# is E natural.
Those are the two most confused. Also remember The key Signature on a trumpet part is one whole step higher than concert pitch.
Written Bb key is actually Ab concert. Written F in trumpet is Eb concert. Written Eb in trumpet is Db concert.
Hope this helps.
Bob

I just need to work at it. Thanks for spelling it out for me.

ttf_Jhereg · Post by **ttf_Jhereg** » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:59 pm

Quote from: Bob Riddle on Nov 18, 2017, 07:25AMOk.
Remember written C in trumpet treble or tenor is Bb, C# is B natural.Written F in Trumpet treble or tenor is Eb, written F# is E natural.
Those are the two most confused. Also remember The key Signature on a trumpet part is one whole step higher than concert pitch.
Written Bb key is actually Ab concert. Written F in trumpet is Eb concert. Written Eb in trumpet is Db concert.
Hope this helps.
Bob

I just need to work at it. Thanks for spelling it out for me.