Has anyone got any experience, positive or otherwise, of playing the alto trombone in a 10 to 12-piece brass group? Our group is a project orchestra with mostly the same members that comes together sometime in the Autumn and plays one concert at Christmas.
We generally have:
4-5 trumpets (piccolo or flugel as appropriate)
1 horn
4-5 trombone
1 tuba
Percussion
Our repertoire for this year is:
Zadok the priest
Adagio Concierto de Aranjuez
Londoner in New York (Central Park, Chrysler Building, Radio City)
Gabrielli Canzon in double echo
Londonderry air (trombone solo)
Allegro from the 3rd Brandenburg Concerto
Various Chorales and Christmas carols
Generally I'll be playing the 1st trombone part on tenor trombone, possibly doubling the horn for moral support in some places.
I was thinking it could sound really colourful and interesting in places with A-T-T-B trombones. My idea would be for Zadok and the Brandenburg Concerto, but even the Gabrieli may work. The Chorales should also work.
Anybody tried this in such a group? Anything to watch out for in particular?
Back in college I did occasionally use alto for 1st trombone parts in such setting, also for the odd arrangement that had 2 horns and 3 bones instead of 1 and 4, playing the 2nd horn part.
I'm not a big fan of doing Gabrieli on settings like that. I think it just sounds better with only trumpets and trombones, the horn and tuba always sound out of place to me in that repertoire. I had that impression already before I knew much about that music or ever touched a sackbut, and my experience playing it on period instruments just confirmed it.
Maximilien Brisson www.maximilienbrisson.com
Lecturer for baroque trombone,
Hfk Bremen/University of the Arts Bremen
I have used alto in this kind of group, not for a whole concert but used in addition to tenor on first. It works well on any arrangement that has very fast or difficult parts, where a shorter slide would help. I used it to play the flute part (not just the solo) for stars and stripes.
Check out the German Brass recordings of Bach and other baroque music - some nice uses of alto on the occasional piece. Enrique Crespo also uses an alto valve trombone for an interesting sound color in some more technical pieces.
An alto trombone with a Bb attachment works well for a horn substitute or even for playing trombone parts (except for E below the bass staff). Many early chorales were intended for AATB trombones, although most tenor players have enough range to play the alto parts.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
I'm hearing some encouraging noises so will practice up my parts to Zadok, Brandenburg and the Chorales on tenor and alto and just try it out when we meet for the first practice in September.
I had a quick look at the German brass video of the Brandenburg Concerto No. 3 on youtube. I noticed they have a euphonium which might be an option for me if I can't get the more technical parts sounding as relaxed as I'd like on trombone, I'm bringing my euphonium for the Concierto de Aranjuez anyway so will perhaps try it out. I'd rather try to sound a bit lighter in the Bach though, I think I'd prefer the sound of a small bore tenor or alto trombone.
As a side note for added fullness we're going for two tubas, one euph, one bass trom, two tenor troms and a horn + trumpets backing a flugel soloist on the Concerto de Aranjuez. That's a combo I've never played in before so will also be interesting.
LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:17 pm
I'm not a big fan of doing Gabrieli on settings like that. I think it just sounds better with only trumpets and trombones, the horn and tuba always sound out of place to me in that repertoire.
As always Maximilien, thanks for your expert advice on early music. In our group we have the option of the tubist moving onto trombone and the percussionist onto trumpet so we can have three choirs, each with two trumpets and two trombones. The hornist may have to take a short break.
Just to clarify my reasoning re: Gabrieli, the issue I have with tuba is threefold : A) those are bass trombone parts, and some of the earliest ones we have, seems a bit of a shame to me not to play them on bass trombone. B) those parts are not that low (unless they're arrangements meant to have tuba specifically with passages dropped down an octave, in which case I'd avoid those arrangements) and not really in the tuba's money range, mostly staying in the staff with occasional passages below (low D's, low C's are common, low Bb occasional, nothing below that; all notes that sound great on bass trombone) C) the tuba has a very wide and envelopping sound that is usually great for support and rounding the sound of the ensemblr, but in this case diminishes the effect of having spacially separated choirs (which is pretty much the point of those pieces). The bass of the various choirs are usually in octaves and unisons during tutti moments so plenty of support should be available without needing that extra wide sound.
I love your proposed Concierto de Aranjuez line-up. I think mixing things up with a diverse instrumentarium is a great idea in brass ensembles, that we too often shy away from. Especially which arrangements of orchestral music. I remember playing the Sweedy arrangement for trombone choir of the final scene of Die Walküre, where instead of a solo bass trombone, we had an actual bass singer on Wotan's part, and in the 10-part choir, had a tuba on the bottom and some mixed instrumentation with euphonium and tenor horn and even bass trumpet, and it was absolutely glorious. All those colors, which almost all actually belong in the Ring...so much more interesting than doing it with 10 trombones.
(I realise the two parts of this comment seem very contradictory, but different repertoires want different things)
Maximilien Brisson www.maximilienbrisson.com
Lecturer for baroque trombone,
Hfk Bremen/University of the Arts Bremen
