My New Obsession: Ophicleide

[MikeStew40]

When it comes to playing instruments in general, I'm not really that talented. Not saying this for pity but as a justification to myself that I do not need to spend thousands of dollars on an instrument that I wouldn't even be able to play... but I must have it . Something about the ophicleide is just so alluring. Has anyone else looked into these or even played one? I would love to hear about it.

[BGuttman]

I actually had a chance to honk on a Quinticlave (the "tenor" version) that was owned by the band director of a band I was in. It was genuine late 19th Century. Had a big problem trying to find the pitch. It probably also had a leak, which contributed to my inability to find the pitch.

A friend of mine had a method book by Mayberry (director of the Yankee Brass Band) and I made myself a copy of it.

I know of only one part actually written for Ophicleide in the literature: the overture to Midsummer Night's Dream by Mendelssohn. Also, the Symphony Fantastique by Berlioz has two parts that were probably written for Ophicleide, but are usually played on F and C tubas respectively.

Most of the Ophicleide playing I have seen is with Civil War bands (US Civil War, 1861-1865). Even late 19th century bands had switched to the Eb tuba almost completely. Note that I have copies of the band books of the 3rd NH Volunteer Post Band from the Civil War and it calls for 2 Eb tubas, not ophicleides. Generally played on Saxhorn instruments.

[harrisonreed]

https://wessex-tubas.com/collections/op ... leide-ob10

[mrdeacon]

https://wessex-tubas.com/collections/op ... leide-ob10

Had a friend in college who bought one of those instruments. Apparently they aren't half bad. We made fun of him incessantly for buying it lol.

[harrisonreed]

I would too. It's up there with the serpent and that Yeo dragon thing in an already nerdy hobby.

[RJMason]

Ophicleide also enjoyed a slightly longer time period being used in Brazil in the beginnings of 20th century Choro. A plucky but mellow bass instrument. With the woodwinds and pandeiro, wow! If I ever got one, that is what I would be working on with a small group.

[Finetales]

I know of only one part actually written for Ophicleide in the literature: the overture to Midsummer Night's Dream by Mendelssohn.

That one was technically first written for English bass horn, then revised to ophicleide by the first published edition. Elias (Op. 70) was written for ophicleide from the outset.

Also, the Symphony Fantastique by Berlioz has two parts that were probably written for Ophicleide, but are usually played on F and C tubas respectively.

They were for sure written for ophicleide and serpent (and if they must be played on tubas, both parts should be on an F). There are also originally ophicleide and serpent parts in Rienzi, and an overture by Arthur Sullivan.

There are quite a few pieces that were written for the instrument before it was replaced by the tuba, but most of them aren't commonly played.

[EdwardSolomon]

I know of only one part actually written for Ophicleide in the literature: the overture to Midsummer Night's Dream by Mendelssohn.

That one was technically first written for English bass horn, then revised to ophicleide by the first published edition. Elias (Op. 70) was written for ophicleide from the outset.

Also, the Symphony Fantastique by Berlioz has two parts that were probably written for Ophicleide, but are usually played on F and C tubas respectively.

They were for sure written for ophicleide and serpent (and if they must be played on tubas, both parts should be on an F). There are also originally ophicleide and serpent parts in Rienzi, and an overture by Arthur Sullivan.

There are quite a few pieces that were written for the instrument before it was replaced by the tuba, but most of them aren't commonly played.

Well said. All true.

In point of fact, the ophicleide was used in brass bands, too. There is literature from the 19th century that used them. However, the star ophicleide soloists were presented with a brand new euphonium as a prize in contests, so this contributed directly to its demise from the brass band world.

There are several Berlioz works that use the ophicleide, though he was by no means the only composer who was to write for it so frequently. He scored for it in the Grande messe des morts, Symphonie funèbre et triomphale, Te deum, as well as smaller scale works such as the overture King Lear, which features a lengthy solo for the ophicleide in the central section. Verdi, too, scored for the valved ophicleide.

[BGuttman]

I thought the valved ophicleide was a cimbasso.

The owner of the quinticlave was a music teacher and repairman who actually was able to play it using his baritone saxophone mouthpiece. He was a very good reed player -- I know of him playing clarinet, several saxophones, and bassoon.

[LeTromboniste]

I have one and play some (not often enough). Have been lucky enough to play a few good gigs on it. It's a very interesting and unique beast. You have to get used to bending a lot of the notes in place and to the concept that each note has a different tone quality, since by nature you're massively changing what portion of the instrument is used and some of the notes aren't anywhere near the bell. The difference in bore between the top hole near the bocal and the bottom hole near the bell is massive. Probably 3 times narrower or more.

Getting the octaves in tune is really crucial, so the instrument is very sensitive to mouthpiece choice.

The fingerings are crazy if you're used to any other wind instrument fingerings (they make more sense to string players in a way), as the holes are closed by default and pressing keys opens them and makes the pitch go up instead of down. The fingering pattern is more of a circle than linear, basically your fingers are
1.L index OPEN 2.L medius 3.L thumb 4.L ring 5.R thumb 6.R pinky 7.R ring 8.R medius 9.R index, and then you're back to 1.L index
Also as they added more keys they didn't change the layout of the original 9 keys, and some of the added keys (up to 3) end up not following the already weird pattern.

The right hand is mostly only really used in the low range, so it's very left-hand intensive, which is also the hand holding much of the weight of the instrument.

[LeTromboniste]

In terms of repertoire, quite a bit of Berlioz, Mendelssohn, Verdi (probably valved ophicleide, possibly keyed in the earlier works), and of course all of their more obscure contemporaries.

I thought the valved ophicleide was a cimbasso.

That's a really complicated issue but roughly, cimbasso is originally an upright serpent with a wooden body and brass bell and finger holes. They made later variants all of brass with valves. But the name came to often generically designate the role/part rather than the actual instrument used to play it. Just to make things worse the modern "cimbasso" has little to do with the original cimbasso...A number of low brass instruments were in use in Italy in the 19th century, some supplanting others, some coexisting. Upright serpent/cimbasso, keyed ophicleide, valved ophicleide, valved cimbasso, bombardon, valved bass trombone, valved (so-called "Verdi") contrabass trombone, all of those were probably used at some point to play parts labelled cimbasso or ophicleide...

[2bobone]

In 1975,I recorded an album of "19th Century American Ballroom Music" for Nonesuch Records [H-71313] playing bass ophicleide and tenor and baritone Saxhorns. Other unusual instruments represented in the ensemble were : Alto ophicleide / Soprano, alto, tenor, baritone and contrabass Saxhorns / Keyed Bugles / vintage cornet, trumpet, horn and bass trombone. Most instruments came from the Smithsonian Institution collection supervised by Robert Sheldon who brought many of them back to playing condition for this recording. Those with an interest in how beautifully an ophicleide can be played need only listen to solo passages played by Robert Sheldon playing the alto ophicleide. Frustrating to play, beautiful to hear ! They deserve a comeback ----------.

[bbocaner]

I've played for about 20 years, I really enjoy the instrument. I've gotten to do several concerts with period instrument orchestras which is great fun.

I do have an instrument for sale if you're interested - it's a Couesnon from 1926 (!!) which would make it one of the most recently made instruments, if you don't count the recent Chinese instruments.

[pfrancis]

There is a Schiller ophicleide for sale at Baltimore Brass Co., less than a thousand dollars too.

http://www.baltimorebrass.net/index.php?cat=5

[Kbiggs]

If you have a chance, check out Nick Byrne’s 2006 recording “Back from Oblivion.” It’ll make you a believer.

Here is a newsletter he wrote about some of his ophicleide activities a few years back:

https://8thposition.wordpress.com/2013/ ... e-travels/

Many years ago, I was able to play an ophicleide for about 20 minutes at an old folk and obsolete instrument store in California called Lark in the Morning. It was difficult as it leaked—needed new pads. But what a glorious sound!

[dukesboneman]

I`ve always been interested in "Different" horns.
I bought this awhile ago, and it`s Beautiful.
Check it out
https://www.amazon.com/Virtuoso-Ophicle ... sic&sr=1-1

[Finetales]

Just to throw another wrench in the discussion...

Here's a modern valved ophicleide (apparently).

[Posaunus]

Just to throw another wrench in the discussion...

Here's a modern valved ophicleide (apparently).

For a mere $10,500 or so (the dollar is dropping like a rock vs the Euro).

[dxhall]

Playing ophicleide was apparently not a path to wealth. From Wikipedia:

Sam Hughes (1 September 1823 – 1 April 1898) was the last great ophicleide player and one of the greatest who ever played the instrument in its short history.[citation needed]
Biography[edit]
Samuel Hughes was born in Trentham, Staffordshire, England, the son of a bricklayer.
In the mid-19th century the ophicleide was the bass-baritone instrument of the brass family, replacing the serpent and in turn being replaced by the euphonium. It was a keyed instrument (unlike the serpent), but without valves (unlike the euphonium).
Hughes began his career playing the ophicleide in one of the newly popular brass bands, the Cyfarthfa Brass Band in Merthyr Tydfil, Wales. He played with the band from the mid-1850s to about 1860. In 1860 the band won the national contest at The Crystal Palace, but Hughes was no longer with them. He also played with Louis Antoine Jullien's orchestra. There he became a star, known especially for his ophicleide solo of "Ruddier Than the Cherry" from Acis and Galatea. Even George Bernard Shaw, who had written disparagingly of the instrument (it had been "born obsolete") was impressed with this song when he heard it at Covent Garden.
Hughes became professor of ophicleide at the Royal Military School of Music at Kneller Hall and at the Guildhall School of Music.
He died in poverty in 1898 in Reading, Berkshire, England. The ophicleide died with him. His widow received a small grant for his burial from the Royal Society of Musicians. His instrument is on display in the Cyfarthfa Castle Museum, known around the world as one of the best surviving examples of its type.

[MikeStew40]

https://wessex-tubas.com/collections/op ... leide-ob10

Oh I know

[MikeStew40]

I've played for about 20 years, I really enjoy the instrument. I've gotten to do several concerts with period instrument orchestras which is great fun.

I do have an instrument for sale if you're interested - it's a Couesnon from 1926 (!!) which would make it one of the most recently made instruments, if you don't count the recent Chinese instruments.

I have no money but thank you for the offer!

[MikeStew40]

There is a Schiller ophicleide for sale at Baltimore Brass Co., less than a thousand dollars too.

http://www.baltimorebrass.net/index.php?cat=5

Less than a thousand is great but I think my fiancé would kill me if I spent that much on an instrument. For now, I can listen to the music

[dxhall]

You’ve piqued my curiosity. How much is a 1926 Couesnon worth? It would certainly be a conversation piece in my music room.

[bbocaner]

You’ve piqued my curiosity. How much is a 1926 Couesnon worth? It would certainly be a conversation piece in my music room.

It's unrestored and needs pads and some work to free up the keys before it's playable, but it's a very high quality instrument and I'm certain it'll be quite good once it's been fixed up. I paid $2500 for it several years back but then decided I didn't need two almost identical instruments. (I play one made in 1902) - so I'd be willing to let it go for less. It also has a stamp on it from a Cuban importer, so that's pretty unique and cool as well. Send me a private message if you're interested.

[dxhall]

PM sent.

[tbonesullivan]

Just to throw another wrench in the discussion...

Here's a modern valved ophicleide (apparently).

That's interesting, but with valves, can it really be considered an Ophicleide? It just looks like a late 19th century German Tuba.

[Finetales]

That's interesting, but with valves, can it really be considered an Ophicleide? It just looks like a late 19th century German Tuba.

That's why I added the "apparently". It does have a very narrow flare. I would love to play one or at least hear one to see if it really lives up to the name. It's also apparently in F, which is un-prototypical for a bass ophicleide as far as I know.

[LeTromboniste]

Valved ophicleides were absolutely a thing. Quite different in bore profile compared to bass tubas (which also tended to have huge-throated bells with very little flare). Ophicleides have a generally narrower bore and much narrower bell.

[BGuttman]

OK. What's the difference between a valved Ophicleide and a Bombardon?

[tbonesullivan]

OK. What's the difference between a valved Ophicleide and a Bombardon?

Oh boy, you just had to make things more confusing

[LeTromboniste]

This is a big can of worms. It gets really complicated and confusing as the names didn't even mean the same thing in different countries. For example, the French ophicleide was different in bore profile and sound from the German one (much to Berlioz's dismay when he arrived in Leipzig. They ended up using a 4th trombone on his ophicleide part because he hated the sound of the German instrument). The instruments used in Italy were first Austrian-made, then they developed their own different ones. There was a huge variety of designs as this was a period of rapid evolution with the early days of industrialization of instrument building and all these different innovative makers coming up with new instruments. There was contradiction even at the time (some called valved ophicleide what by others' standards was really a bombardon and vice versa). Research in these topics is still very much a work in progress and some questions are yet to be answered. There is an ongoing series of articles in the Historic Brass Society Journal which I highly recommend reading and following.

[EdwardSolomon]

Valved ophicleides were absolutely a thing. Quite different in bore profile compared to bass tubas (which also tended to have huge-throated bells with very little flare). Ophicleides have a generally narrower bore and much narrower bell.

See Clifford Bevan's The Tuba Family (2nd edition, Piccolo Press), which devotes much space to discussing the ophicleide and other early predecessors to the tuba. He covers the valved ophicleides with examples of such instruments. A highly recommended tome if you have a serious interest in the development of low brass instruments. He also covers the thorny topic of the cimbasso with aplomb.

[Sethist]

I recently acquired a Wessex B-flat ophicleide. and have enjoyed playing it. I find that it is much more forgiving than a trombone which may be because the notes are less “slotted”.

[sf105]

Harry Barlow, a founder of the British school of tuba playing, was listed in the first programme of the Halle Orchestra on ophicleide. Obviously, he changed instrument soon afterwards.

[jonathanharker]

See Clifford Bevan's The Tuba Family (2nd edition, Piccolo Press), which devotes much space to discussing the ophicleide and other early predecessors to the tuba. He covers the valved ophicleides with examples of such instruments. A highly recommended tome if you have a serious interest in the development of low brass instruments. He also covers the thorny topic of the cimbasso with aplomb.

Absolutely! I used Bevan's book and Meucci's cimbasso article to fix up the Wikipedia cimbasso and serpent articles, which are now (I hope) a good summary too.