Masks for Musicians?

[TromboneForTwo]

Hello all!

My school has said that now we need masks when playing--specifically the kind with a hole in it. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has to deal with this. What were your solutions? I do not have a sewing machine and I want to avoid using a razor blade to cut a slit in the traditional surgical mask or even worse... sacrifice a valuable n95??? they are worth their weight in gold I hear!!!!

[Elow]

My director tried to enforce something like that but some parents complained to the school about “discrimation”. Anyways, what he had us do is just cut a hole in a cloth mask where it overlaps normally so that when we don’t play it would still close. I still use mine and can provide pics if you want.

[JLivi]

I bought my mask from Directors Assistant, but I can't seem to find it anymore, just the bell covers.

After a little digging around, I was able to find this mask. I looks similar to what I have.

https://www.jwpepper.com/Adjustable-Ins ... 900.item#/

It might be worth researching "PPE for trombone."

Also, for what it's worth, where I live, the schools/districts provided PPE for all band students (bell covers and special masks). I'm surprised your school has asked all the kids to provide their own.

[BigBadandBass]

Yeah my school has been in the same boat, I got mine from Etsy, got and weird design on it and everything. We also were provided one and bell covers as well, I would ask around and see why that's not the case for you. Also, just use a purpose made cloth mask, cutting holes in the surgical ones leaves your mouth exposed when not playing

[JCBone]

I feel like these things are not worth the trouble. Where I am, we just take the mask off while playing and then put it back on after. No fussing with useless masks with holes and bell covers.

[Elow]

I feel like these things are not worth the trouble. Where I am, we just take the mask off while playing and then put it back on after. No fussing with useless masks with holes and bell covers.

Well Israel is probably dealing with the pandemic a lot better than the US.

[JCBone]

I feel like these things are not worth the trouble. Where I am, we just take the mask off while playing and then put it back on after. No fussing with useless masks with holes and bell covers.

Well Israel is probably dealing with the pandemic a lot better than the US.

Fine but still. Are masks with holes really that much more advantageous than just putting the mask on in between playing?

[Posaunus]

After a little digging around, I was able to find this mask. I looks similar to what I have.

https://www.jwpepper.com/Adjustable-Ins ... 900.item#/

These (or similar) masks are also required (and provided) for wind players in our school district. (String players are allowed to play with "regular" masks.)

(a) Might be (sort of) usable for brass instruments. But imagine trying to insert / remove / insert / ... your trombone mouthpiece every time you have a rest, need to empty your water valve, ... Can you do this fast enough?

(b) Harder for single reeds (clarinets, saxes) - easy to damage the reed while repeatedly inserting & removing mouthpiece from the overlapped hole ("fly").

(c) Impossible for double reeds (oboes, bassoons). Expensive ($20 - $40 each) reeds will be torn up trying to thread them through the fly. After one rehearsal, the kids will quit.

(d) Pretty much impossible for flutes, I would guess.

(e) Probably ineffective (or perhaps only partially effective?) anyway. There are no reliable scientific studies showing dramatic reductions of aerosols - or reduction in Covid transmission - from woodwind instruments, where much of the exhaust air passes directly through the side holes and into the rehearsal room.

(f) My understanding (anecdotal) is that, after a few tries, some students rebel and won't (can't) use the masks as intended. Some have tried modifying their masks to "keep the holes open." The teachers throw up their hands and keep a sharp lookout for the "mask police."

At least in our district (in Southern California), the bands rehearse outside, sitting 10-12 feet apart (weather permitting). Try that in cooler climes!

Is this how we should be controlling the spread of Covid-19?

[JCBone]

After a little digging around, I was able to find this mask. I looks similar to what I have.

https://www.jwpepper.com/Adjustable-Ins ... 900.item#/

These (or similar) masks are also required (and provided) for wind players in our school district. (String players are allowed to play with "regular" masks.)

(a) Might be (sort of) usable for brass instruments. But imagine trying to insert / remove / insert / ... your trombone mouthpiece every time you have a rest, need to empty your water valve, ... Can you do this fast enough?

(b) Harder for single reeds (clarinets, saxes) - easy to damage the reed while repeatedly inserting & removing mouthpiece from the overlapped hole ("fly").

(c) Impossible for double reeds (oboes, bassoons). Expensive ($20 - $40 each) reeds will be torn up trying to thread them through the fly. After one rehearsal, the kids will quit.

(d) Pretty much impossible for flutes, I would guess.

(e) Probably ineffective (or perhaps only partially effective?) anyway. There are no reliable scientific studies showing dramatic reductions of aerosols - or reduction in Covid transmission - from woodwind instruments, where much of the exhaust air passes directly through the side holes and into the rehearsal room.

(f) My understanding (anecdotal) is that, after a few tries, some students rebel and won't (can't) use the masks as intended. Some have tried modifying their masks to "keep the holes open." The teachers throw up their hands and keep a sharp lookout for the "mask police."

At least in our district (in Southern California), the bands rehearse outside, sitting 10-12 feet apart (weather permitting). Try that in cooler climes!

Is this how we should be controlling the spread of Covid-19?

Choose your battles. Making kids play with impractical masks that are pretty much useless is not something we should be puttibg energy into.

[Doug Elliott]

If I had one that was a workable solution, I would use it.

To me, the issue isn't so much the potential for aerosols going through the horn, it's what I have to inhale when I breathe.

[BigBadandBass]

To me, the issue isn't so much the potential for aerosols going through the horn, it's what I have to inhale when I breathe.

This is the reasoning our school gave for them, that and "be lucky you get even rehearse at all". And honestly,I'll take wearing a little piece of fabric as a necessary evil if it means I can do orchestra, jazz and band again.

[spencercarran]

To me, the issue isn't so much the potential for aerosols going through the horn, it's what I have to inhale when I breathe.

This is correct, bell covers and masks with holes (aka... not masks) are much more theater than real mitigation. The main risk is from being in close quarters in the same room, not from blowing through 2+ meters of pipe. There's not a serious solution that includes wind players sharing indoor space until we have much wider vaccination coverage, unfortunately.

[JCBone]

To me, the issue isn't so much the potential for aerosols going through the horn, it's what I have to inhale when I breathe.

This is correct, bell covers and masks with holes (aka... not masks) are much more theater than real mitigation. The main risk is from being in close quarters in the same room, not from blowing through 2+ meters of pipe. There's not a serious solution that includes wind players sharing indoor space until we have much wider vaccination coverage, unfortunately.

Correct me if i'm wrong but the way some people wear wear regular masks. ( Wearing the ssame unwashed masks for months on end and constantly taking it on on off and adjusting it) It seems that it might just be best for some people not to wear masks at all.

[spencercarran]

Correct me if i'm wrong but the way some people wear wear regular masks. ( Wearing the ssame unwashed masks for months on end and constantly taking it on on off and adjusting it) It seems that it might just be best for some people not to wear masks at all.

That's definitely not good, but I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say they would be better off with no mask at all.

[JCBone]

Correct me if i'm wrong but the way some people wear wear regular masks. ( Wearing the ssame unwashed masks for months on end and constantly taking it on on off and adjusting it) It seems that it might just be best for some people not to wear masks at all.

That's definitely not good, but I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say they would be better off with no mask at all.

Well I'm no expert but it seems like masks often seem to give people a false sense of security. Almost nobody wears them properly and you know how many times I have witnessed people crammed together in tiny spaces but it's ok " They are wearing maks" Not saying I have a soloution, just an observation.

[spencercarran]

Depends where you are, I guess. Walking around my neighborhood on the south side of Chicago I see over 90% of people wearing their masks properly, even while outside and studiously keeping their distance from each other. What my parents tell me of their town in Ohio is quite different.

A mask with a gaping hole at the mouth can't offer anything other than a false sense of security, so there's some validity in your perception there. And even properly worn masks aren't a free pass to cram in tight quarters all day long.

[CalgaryTbone]

I have a couple of the masks that can be worn while playing a brass instrument - a colleague ordered some and a few of us piggybacked on his purchase. They are set us so a brass mouthpiece goes through the opening and the material surrounds the cup of the mouthpiece allowing just the shank to stick through to fit in the receiver (much like the flap in underwear - I take no responsibility for the jokes that follow).

I haven't ended up using these - these particular masks were made with short ear straps, and are not comfortable to wear unless you have one of the devices made to relieve the pressure on the backs of the ears.

I would say that this particular design would, in theory, block a lot of aerosols from being released into the room. It would not be perfect, but would be more safe than not wearing a mask. The covid rules here ask us to wear a mask at all times "other" than when we're playing. We can only play with small groups (currently groups of just one player until hospital rates go down enough) and must be at least 1 meter (6 feet) from the nearest other musician. Bell covers are also required, and the water in the horn must be emptied on to a towel that the musician provides, and places into a zip lock bag to bring home, before leaving the area. Lots of sanitizing as well (paper towels and sanitizing spray to clean the floor near where the towel was placed).

I think the funniest "false sense of security item" is the bell cover for saxophones. The bell is only involved for the lowest notes on the instrument. Every other sound comes out of the holes that are opened when the keys are engaged.

Jim Scott

[ldmitruk]

Hi CalgaryTbone,

When we were rehearsing last fall we used sanitary wipes for our spit towels. When I didn't have the wipe I grabbed some paper towel and coated it with hand sanitizer.

As for saxaphones and other woodwinds, has anyone seen the bags devised for them to play in. Now those are funny.

Cheers

[BGuttman]

You can make bags for oboes, clarinets, saxophones, and bassoons. What do you do about flutes? Make them play recorders into bags?

[BigBadandBass]

From my experience playing a band twice a week, jazz band 3x a week, and orchestra 2x a week with bell covers and masks for brass, social distancing is probably the most helpful thing. Bell covers and masks do though imo make a difference, getting a mask designed to be sealed up (mine has velcro around the hole that closes the mask up when I am not playing) and a bell cover that is not restrictive (the one Joe Alessi talks about in his video on them is amazing, barely any difference, crown royal bags work great too if you can manage to play after draining the bottle before rehearsal that is) do something, there are scientific studies to back it up, see the NFHS study or the one done by the University of Minnesota, they make a difference. The biggest thing though is social distancing and letting air circulate in rehearsal spaces "clearing them out so to say" seem to be the most effective, especially with flutes that cannot really be effectively covered (our flutes use plastic shields to divert air down to the ground and not into the persons head in front of them). In my 2 semesters of this on a college campus, the ensembles have had the lowest infection rate of any student orgs because unlike the rest of them, we are forced to be socially distanced, aren't touring in buses around the country and, lets face it, band kids didn't get invited to parties pre-pandemic either. Now before you quote me and rip apart my arguments, this is just my one small experience in a much larger thing and is not representative of all experiences, nor am I saying that this is the way we should do things, there's always a better solution out there. I would like to be hopeful here and think there is a reason why I have been covid-free other than just luck and would like to think by following guidelines I am doing my part in keeping live music alive right now. That'll be 2 cents please and thank you

[JCBone]

I talked to my Grandfather who was a former Air force Orthepedic surgeon. He tells me that the way most people wear masks is pretty much ineffective and borderline damgerous.