tiny pockets of air

[PosauneCat]

Hello Kids,

I am improving to the point where playing is fun again! YAY. However, I am very far away from being good. Today I noticed a new problem. When I'm playing I sometimes capture small pockets of air right above my upper molars, in between the cheek and gum. I am not sure why that is. Doug Elliott and Dave Wilkins, you may be able to enlighten us as to why some players do this. I suspect it has something to do with stretching and/or flattening the upper lip. I'm certainly not going full-out Dizzy with cheek puffing, but it's still a thing, and I must be doing it to compensate for something. Doug....Dave...?

[Doug Elliott]

You worry too much, it's okay.

[PosauneCat]

You worry too much, it's okay.

Dann, you know me too well! I think you’ll get a kick out of this, Doug…coincidentally, another member of the forum sent me a very nice PM which he started with the line, “As you often seem to do, you're making things more complex than they need to be…” Methinks I have a reputation here!

[PosauneCat]

You worry too much, it's okay.

As a follow-up…what is extreme cheek puffing doing for players that do it? It must be a substitute and an adjunct to the traditional embouchure, no? Like Dizzy is the best example. What was that puffing doing for him or substituting for? Or us it just a habit?

[Doug Elliott]

Puffing can happen in the full cheeks, upper cheeks, under the corners, under the top lip, or the neck. Some of those are a big problem, some a medium problem, and some not a problem at all.

Here's a good example of an upper cheek puff that's no problem.


I'm not sure the mechanics or acoustics behind it, but a few players actually need to have that to produce loud volume. You can hear that in Pete Candoli's sound, it's huge with no real effort. Same with Dizzy. In both cases, the entire corner and chin area is totally firm.

In a general sense, puffing is not a good idea, but it depends on the circumstances.

[PosauneCat]

Puffing can happen in the full cheeks, upper cheeks, under the corners, under the top lip, or the neck. Some of those are a big problem, some a medium problem, and some not a problem at all.

Here's a good example of an upper cheek puff that's no problem.


I'm not sure the mechanics or acoustics behind it, but a few players actually need to have that to produce loud volume. You can hear that in Pete Candoli's sound, it's huge with no real effort. Same with Dizzy. In both cases, the entire corner and chin area is totally firm.

In a general sense, puffing is not a good idea, but it depends on the circumstances.

That’s cool. Candoli’s puff is gigantic compared to what I’m talking about in my playing. You can’t even see it in what I’m talking about. I’ll cross it off my worry list.

[dershem]

Tiny pockets of air... sounds like me the day before payday!
But your version - no big deal at all.

[PosauneCat]

Tiny pockets of air... sounds like me the day before payday!
But your version - no big deal at all.

Thanks, I appreciate the second confirmation!

[imsevimse]

I agree the sound is affected and some puffed cheeks can be needed to get a fuller sound under certain conditions. Good tuba players often puff their cheeks and still play with good sound and control. Other airpockets that are much smaller can disturb and destroy playing. Personally i sometimes get a small airpocket behind the upper lip which I don't like because it distracts me. Even though I can continue and play and it is not heard I do loose some focus when it happens, and that's what is the problem. Volumes of air puffing out cheeks might be a "good thing" to the sound. I can feel that happen in my playing too to some sense when I play loud and it then adds to the sound.

Look at tuba-players...

/Tom

[baileyman]

I'm experimenting with pockets as those in the forward cheek area seem to do something to smooth out articulation disturbance. Not sure though.

[UrbanaDave]

Just found this discussion. I’m finding that a bit of puff in my upper cheeks is actually helping me solve a repeated tonguing issue. https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=37226

While Skyping with Doug, I mentioned my corners and cheek muscles feel very tight when I struggle to articulate repeated notes in the middle register. He asked me to let my cheeks puff to see what happens. Suddenly I felt that my tongue moved freely and quick within that airstream. While I’m not sure this is a sure fix, I can definitely feel my tongue doing a better job of articulating, as it already does while playing legato in all registers or detached in the upper and lower registers. The big changes involve a better airstream and a slight relaxing of my corners. I’m eager to see if this leads to some progress with this problem. I guess I'm sharing partly because I found this discussion, but also to see if others have thoughts on this cheeky topic.