Instrument repair and Creation, how'd you get into it?

[BigBadandBass]

Alright, long story short, I am applying for grad school for performance and possibly music business. But I do not feel confident about my tapes and auditions, I just wasn't up to snuff and don't feel that great am looking for other possible options for career. I've been super interested in making horns and working on them and am curious, techs and manufacturers on here, how did you get into it? Where did you start and how did you make contacts and get experience? I'm in MN so the redwing school wouldn't be that far away, what's the starting steps and how exactly do you move up in that world? I've done repair stuff before for my colleagues but no real formal education.

[BGuttman]

The Brass and Woodwind Shop has a bunch of videos on YouTube showing different aspects of instrument repair. I think one of the videos shows how he got into the business.

The course at Red Wing (I believe it may have a different name now) is less than a year and gives you the basics. After that you would need to serve as an apprentice at a shop (hopefully with somebody who knows what they are doing and can help you learn).

I'm sure our resident Techs will answer any questions you have.

As to the creation angle, there aren't that many opportunities just because there aren't that many places that would take you on. The larger shops may need someone with a degree or a skill (like tool and diemaker). Small shops are generally guys who went from fixing to making. In fact, a lot of the big names in instruments were started by repairmen who grew the business.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

After seeing a tech do some very cool things with my instruments in the early 1990s, I got the bug. I really wanted to be able to do repair/customization work and also experiment with different components on my own instruments. I was considering taking sabbatical for a year from my teaching positions (public schools and small liberal arts college) and enrolling in a program like Red Wing to learn the trade.

While visiting a different technician (a gentleman who retired from heading the repair shop at the Navy School of Music), I mentioned my plan to enroll in a trade school for a year. His response was...."why do that?" He suggested that I work summers and evenings at a local repair shop. He stated... "That way, you can EARN money while learning the trade."

So, I followed his advice. I worked for 13 years at a very busy and well-equipped shop. Logging in about 55 hours per week during the summers and only a few hours per week during most of the school year. I started at minimum wage, but my pay moved up quickly because I worked hard, did quality work and I had high output.

After a few years of working in the shop, I started buying many of my own tools. It took several years to get enough tools to have my own functioning shop. When my kids got to a certain age that they wanted me to be home for summer activities, I quit my summer job at the shop. I was worried about the drop in income, but was pleasantly surprised by how many repair jobs came my way. By the second summer, the repairs I did at home equaled the pay that I had from my grueling summers at the big shop.

If you work at a repair shop that is connected with a retail store, you will be doing mostly "play condition" repairs and the majority of the instruments you repair will be student-level instruments (rental fleet instruments). Why?....that's the majority of the instruments that exist out there and kids tend to really beat up instruments. If you do a repair business on your own, you could see a lot more professional-level instruments and customization projects.

[FOSSIL]

Brian has it nailed. I have never wanted to get involved with repairs, though I do get cornered by members of my orchestra from time to time. Custom stuff is the fun...icing on the cake for the full time pro tech, but most of my work as a hobbyist tech. Usually my own projects, but I have done some fun stuff for others. Hard work if you do it full time and you need to be as quick as you are good to support a family with enough cash.
There are far fewer really good techs than there are really good trombonists .

Chris

[Posaunus]

There are far fewer really good techs than there are really good trombonists .

[Crazy4Tbone86]

I want to point out that, while I was steered away from going to a repair tech school, I know quite a few techs who have gone that direction. They had very good training there and some of them have developed excellent machining skills.

[harrisonreed]

Maybe look into CIOMIT?

[TrombonesRuleTheWorld]

I’m looking at getting into this. I’m about to graduate high school and I’m joining the air national guard. Once I do boot camp I don’t know if I want to apply to a community college for a entertainment management degree or go the repair route. I still don’t know if I want to start a professional brass band with a degree, join a orchestra, or work at then possible have my own repair shop.

If I go to any Florida public college the national guard will pay for it, and when I’m in national guard it’s only one weekend a month. So I have the rest of the month to do whatever the F**** I want

One thing I was wondering about is job security and stuff like that. There’s a lot of brass bands and a couple repair shops in my area. I don’t know how many gigs or jobs I’d be able to get. If I go the brass band route, my mom is really engrained in the wedding industry around here so I have some connections their. If I want to go into a professional band or repair shop I go to a school where our band staff is filled with people people respected all around the state.

All I know is I love music and I want to be able to do it as a job but still have something to fall back on.

[SquareTube]

I went through the program at Red Wing, and it was an excellent start to a career. I would agree that it gives a student an "advanced apprentice" rating by the end of two semesters. The 'pyramid' also holds true (mostly student work, since that's the biggest part of the market.) 'Fun' projects nay be on your own time, but you can learn a lot from rebuilding/Frankensteining horns.

I've spent about 3-4 years each at a couple shops over the last two decades, starting at my third now. I had stints at Greenhoe and Shires for about the same length of time, so I feel I'm in a good position to contrast repair vs. production, but also small vs. large shops (in both contexts.) In any case, quality of management is the most important aspect in my book.

Case in point, I'm returning to the music world after time at a non-musically related assembly position, and I can say a repair job beats the pants off that scene!

Happy to answer questions, but having a combination of highly developed musical skill and hands-on experience sounds like a great start! I'd recommend applying to the Red Wing program, especially if you're local (and you get resident tuition rates.)

Nate

[harrisonreed]

If I go to any Florida public college the national guard will pay for it, and when I’m in national guard it’s only one weekend a month. So I have the rest of the month to do whatever the F**** I want

I don't think that is how it works... I ran the math:

($4,222 annual salary) + (full time school OR "I can start a professional band with my degree") + ("I can do whatever I want when I'm not at drill" attitude) =/= sustainable life

In all seriousness, make sure they are actually paying for school as a part of your contact. If I was a recruiter, I too would use the oldest trick in the book:

"Ah, yep. School is free and included! (just make sure you apply for military TA like every other service member does because this isn't actually an enlistment benefit and we recruiters don't actually have to do any paperwork to give you de facto benefits. Did I mention that you get free dog tags? And it has to be a Florida public school. Because they have a virtual campus on every military base, and their tuition is exactly the same amount as the TA. Books not included. Food not included. GI Bill and subsequent E5 single rate BAH not included. Maintain a 3.0, included.) Yup!"

[brassmedic]

I never worked for anyone else and I never went to a trade school, so I can't comment on that. But I can say that you should try to make friends with the people who are the best in this field, and they might impart some of their wisdom to you. The other thing I can say is if you're doing a lot of school band repairs, I imagine you have to just get stuff out the door as quickly as possible, but if you are doing anything for a client who owns the instrument, do not ever cut corners. It's all word of mouth, and if you try to do stuff fast and cheap and leave it looking ugly, people WILL talk about you, and your career will be over before you know it. Doesn't matter if the client begged you to do work fast and cheap - don't ever do it, because other people will see your work, and when they ask who worked on it, the owner will say, "Oh, BigBadandBass did it". And they probably won't mention that they begged you to do a quick and dirty job on it. So just say no. I think if you do really good work, people will find out about you and you will end up having more customers than you know what to do with. Obviously, if you work for someone else you have to do what they tell you to do, but in general you should strive for not only functional, but also something that looks good.

[Kbiggs]

I never worked for anyone else and I never went to a trade school, so I can't comment on that. But I can say that you should try to make friends with the people who are the best in this field, and they might impart some of their wisdom to you. The other thing I can say is if you're doing a lot of school band repairs, I imagine you have to just get stuff out the door as quickly as possible, but if you are doing anything for a client who owns the instrument, do not ever cut corners. It's all word of mouth, and if you try to do stuff fast and cheap and leave it looking ugly, people WILL talk about you, and your career will be over before you know it. Doesn't matter if the client begged you to do work fast and cheap - don't ever do it, because other people will see your work, and when they ask who worked on it, the owner will say, "Oh, BigBadandBass did it". And they probably won't mention that they begged you to do a quick and dirty job on it. So just say no. I think if you do really good work, people will find out about you and you will end up having more customers than you know what to do with. Obviously, if you work for someone else you have to do what they tell you to do, but in general you should strive for not only functional, but also something that looks good.

I’ve been around a few techs while they work. In their more candid moments they will sometimes express frustration with a customer who is hard to please, doesn’t have the money to do repairs properly, etc.

“He’s a great player, and he has a great [insert woodwind instrument here]. He wants me to replace or adjust one or two pads, but the whole things needs to be re-padded and adjusted, and the springs need to be replaced too. I’ve told him this is the last time I’ll do work on his horns ‘just to get by’ because it makes me look bad and he just keeps coming back for nickel and dime jobs. It’s nice to have a loyal customer, but it’s not worth the bad advertising.”

[LIBrassCo]

Alright, long story short, I am applying for grad school for performance and possibly music business. But I do not feel confident about my tapes and auditions, I just wasn't up to snuff and don't feel that great am looking for other possible options for career. I've been super interested in making horns and working on them and am curious, techs and manufacturers on here, how did you get into it? Where did you start and how did you make contacts and get experience? I'm in MN so the redwing school wouldn't be that far away, what's the starting steps and how exactly do you move up in that world? I've done repair stuff before for my colleagues but no real formal education.

I'm self taught, but I do take on/train employees, and offer internships. Actually getting going wasn't the easiest thing. I've had to develop my own processes for everything I do, and optimize them over time. Also, what I do is really specific. No repair work, only extensive modification of full builds for trombones (limited slots available), and mostly mouthpieces since covid.