Invisalign braces for performance.

[jeterbone]

Hi y'all,

I am a freelancing tenor trombonist in my mid 20s just about to start taking auditions on a regular basis and such. I took some unfortunate time off of a regular dentist since I moved from undergraduate to graduate degrees in different cities, and Covid hitting in the middle of all of that.

I went back and spoke with the dentist and hygienist for my first appointment back and they recommended braces for my lower set of teeth. I have to preface, this is not the first time I've been told I need braces. I am less skeptical of Invisalign braces because of the liberties I can have with taking them on and off. The reason I bring this topic up is because I have been told changing the anatomy of your mouth will change how you play or change the sound.


I'm curious to know if anyone here has gone through the process or had a friend/relative who was a brass player go through it and what their experience was? And what exactly the difference might be physically and sound wise to the performer after they go through the whole process of getting their teeth realigned. Also to what extent the change is.

I don't need to make a decision this week but I am leaning towards getting the braces fitted because I was told it's strictly a hygiene thing and I find that to be important in brass playing especially. Even more so if I want to play for 30-40 years down the line, whether it be in a professional orchestra or just for fun. Is this change going to benefit me in the long run? Who knows.. Any tips would be much appreciated!

[Burgerbob]

I had a friend do this at work. He's a full time member of the band (I am just a sub).

He had a really rough time. At first, he would leave in the invisalign when he played (as the dentist told him to). This really limited his range and endurance and articulation, and he quickly started just taking them off for sets. Even then, the daily pain and teeth movement really made his life rough (plus a permanent metal fixture).

Thankfully(?), this was a few months before the pandemic, and he got time away from the instrument to finish up the alignment process. He's in much better shape now.

Overall, I think it's doable as a trombonist but I wouldn't recommend if you're working or doing the audition thing. Be prepared to take some months away from serious improvement or even keeping things the same.

Long term, that's probably worth it, of course.

[jeterbone]

Oh wow, thank you for the input! That helps me a ton!!

[Kbiggs]

I had Invisalign braces for a while. You can look up some of my posts.

Overall, they helped straiten my top teeth although I still have a space developing between my two front teeth as I did when I was a kid. My bottom teeth have started to revert back to their previous state, although they are still fine.

I took them out to play, and I was up front with the dentist about it. I didn’t have too much adjusting to do, or too much pain. I just wish the retainers I was given at the end held up better, and that replacements weren’t prohibitively expensive.

[jeterbone]

Interesting..

My bottom set of teeth have been crowded my whole life and I've really wanted to try and change that but after listening to what y'all have had to say I think I will wait to get this stuff going.

Your input has been incredibly useful!

[afugate]

Interesting..

My bottom set of teeth have been crowded my whole life and I've really wanted to try and change that but after listening to what y'all have had to say I think I will wait to get this stuff going.

Your input has been incredibly useful!

I had a couple of back molars removed when I was a kid. That prevented my teeth from crowding and forcing braces.

--Andy in OKC

[Kbiggs]

Interesting..

My bottom set of teeth have been crowded my whole life and I've really wanted to try and change that but after listening to what y'all have had to say I think I will wait to get this stuff going.

Your input has been incredibly useful!

I had a couple of back molars removed when I was a kid. That prevented my teeth from crowding and forcing braces.

--Andy in OKC

When I first had regular braces in middle school, the endodontist removed 4 molars—the second ones from the back.* At the time it was standard practice. It allowed room for the teeth to move around and get into alignment. For some (like me), that extra room over time allowed the teeth to start shifting around, often towards their previous natural state. The same thing happened after Invisalign. Between the back and the now second from back molars, I have large spaces that trap food. I floss my teeth often.

I suspect that if I my retainers hadn’t broken or had been replaced, they wouldn’t have shifted. C’est la vie.


*Funny story related to the extraction. When the endodontist was finished removing the teeth, he stuffed the empty sockets with cotton and told me to bite down. I couldn’t. “Oh, I see,” said the dentist. “I’ve dislocated your jaw. Just a moment.” He stood at the side of the chair, placed his hands on either side of my jaw and pulled it into place. Of course, I felt nothing due to nitrous oxide and novocaine. I’ve never had any jaw problems before or since.

[AndrewMeronek]

I got Invisalign two years ago via an orthodontist who was also a trombonist, as it turned out. We worked out a pretty good treatment, and so far I'm happy with it. Three thoughts come to mind given my experience:

Make sure the step-to-step changes when you move between inserts isn't too aggressive. That will help with taking the inserts out to perform.

Definitely see if you can get inserts that work without adding studs to the teeth that your mouthpiece sits on.

Get two retainers after all of your teeth-moving is done. It will really help with wear and tear on the retainers, and makes it easier to keep them clean.

In general, getting orthodontic work as an adult seems to turn out to be a pretty good idea. It's not just to fix the obvious crooked teeth that you can see in smiles, but also molars that may be not quite aligned with molars on the opposite jaw, which can lead to teeth cracking and really severe problems.

[Dennis]

The reason I bring this topic up is because I have been told changing the anatomy of your mouth will change how you play or change the sound.

It might change how you play. It might change it for the better, it might change it for worse (I don't personally know anyone for whom that is true, but there aren't any guarantees). Why is your dentist recommending orthodontia?

I had a malocclusion that in part resulted in my lower incisors tapping the back of my upper incisors. One day, the top of one of the lower incisors broke off. (It was only a millimeter or so, but it felt like at least a mile to my tongue.) Emergency trip to the dentist. They built a replacement. Four or five months later, it fell out. Back to the dentist, who replaced it. About four years later, it fell out again. Back to the dentist (a new dentist, because I'd moved) who put yet another new one in. This dentist mentioned, "You're going to keep replacing this every few years because of the malocclusion. You lose a little more of the tooth every time, too. Eventually we will have to put a crown in. The only thing that will fix it is braces."

So, I got a second opinion and the same verdict. The orthodontist I consulted for the second opinion told me he would recommend conventional braces, but Invisalign could work. The dentist that recommended braces is an Invisalign dentist, and I like her and trust her, so I went back to her for Invisalign. I went with Invisalign for two reasons. First, the course of treatment was originally scheduled for 18 months instead of 24 to 30. Second, it didn't involve gluing brackets onto my teeth. (At month 10, my dentist took new impressions, and changed the treatment plan and cut 2 months off the time. As she told me, "We can move teeth.)

It did involve gluing 25+ anchors in various places on my teeth (some teeth had as many as 3 anchors), and I had to use silicone bands for the first 10 months or so. I completed it successfully and played all through treatment. My dentist wanted me to wear the aligners 22 hours a day (i.e., while practicing and rehearsing). I was dubious, but I tried it. It worked. I needed some orthodontic wax, but it worked. The aligners didn't affect my playing all that much.

Most of the movement with a new aligner occurs in the first 48 hours or so. Practicing/playing during that period was a little more painful. I realigned my practice regimen so I was listening or doing score study/markup or other less-embouchure dependent things during those days. My playing did suffer during therapy, mostly because my teeth were moving around and so angles and forces were changing. Playing a lip reed instrument at a high level is definitely laden with fine motor skills in your chops as well as your fingers.

How did Invisalign affect my playing? My malocclusion resulted in my upper lateral incisors being in front of the central incisors. That's where the mouthpiece rests, and for whatever reason, I was having endurance issues, particularly in the high range. Everything is in place now, and I'm playing across four teeth rather than two. I no longer have the endurance issues. My range hasn't suffered: I've got a reliable D ( ), and it's all I need for the playing I do.

Bottom line: I wish I had done this when I was 43 rather than when I was 63. If I had, I would have an intact lower central incisor.

I wear retainers nightly. After dumping $5K into this project, I don't want those teeth moving. I'm on my second set of retainers now. When your treatment is completed, ask for the impressions. Put them in a box, cushioned and put that in your safe deposit box. When you need replacement retainers 2- 3 years later, you can get out the molds and have the dental lab make new retainers. $200 or so every 2- 3 years is a maintenance cost. Alternatively, you can have your dentist put a wire band in keep everything in place permanently. I didn't want that, because I didn't want a wire messing with my embouchure flexibility, and I was going to have an upper night-time retainer, anyway.

So, should you do it? Teeth are fundamental to your health. Ask your dentist if this is cosmetic (which is what I thought when dentists recommended adult orthodontia until I was enlightened) or if there is an oral health reason for it. Ask your dentist what the hygiene reason is.

[KiaraEdward004]

When you visit the Invisalign dentist for an evaluation, you talk to a dental professional with knowledge about your facial anatomy without much knowledge about the organ you are using for performance. Instead, the dentist concentrates on the problem you report and works on giving you straighter teeth as best possible with the virtually invisible clear aligners.
Check out here: https://foresthillvillageorthodontics.com/

[CharlieB]

Long ago, I wore braces for three years.
My teeth were in perfect alignment when the braces were removed.
Orthodontics was somewhat primitive in those days, and I received no retainer.
The teeth gradually began to move back to their original positions.
Fast forward to my son needing braces.
Once his teeth were correctly aligned and the braces removed, his orthodontist cemented a horizontal stainless steel wire to the inside of the teeth to ensure that the teeth remained stationary. That wire is permanent. Unlike my teeth, which are now crooked again, his are still in perfect alignment.

[Bonehenge]

I made the decision to wear braces as a senior in college. Invisalign wasn't a thing yet, so I went with Lingual braces, braces affixed to the back side of the teeth. This allowed me a natural playing surface for the year that I wore them, including for my senior recital and graduate auditions (accepted to Cleveland Institute, SF Conservatory). For me, there were only positive results. My reason for getting braces was very crooked front teeth on both top and bottom that sort of angled to make a point, meaning I had to press like hell to get any contact at the corners. With an even playing surface, I was able to learn to play with far less pressure. My lips actually got fatter over time after wearing them, recovering from the trauma of just way too much pressure. It takes less pressure to play now and my sound quality and consistency of sound in all registers improved dramatically. Braces made it easier to play, after slugging through the hassle of wearing them and rebuilding my embouchure to address all the little compensations I was making to accommodate seriously crooked teeth. My range and endurance improved due to the mouthpiece resting equally across 4 teeth instead of focused to a point right in the middle of my mouth.

It could be very challenging at times while wearing the braces. Articulation understandably suffers, and your tongue gets a little shredded until you acclimate. It will be difficult to play at all on days after an adjustment, whether with affixed braces like I wore or with Invisalign, but this improves as the adjustments become less severe as treatment nears an end. The only downside for me came from a tone deaf orthodontist who wanted me out the door as soon as the braces were off and was not willing to adjust retainers. He affixed a permanent bar retainer to my bottom teeth, but left a small space between the bar and my teeth right at the point where my mouthpiece makes contact. I could not get him to remove it and re-apply, so of course my teeth settled in a weird way due to the pressure of the mouthpiece. The orthodontic work was brilliant, however. Just make sure your orthodontist really does understand that your decision is not at all cosmetic, that you are expecting a healthy bite and a perfectly even playing surface. Dr Douchebag would only clap back that I was talking about a difference he couldn't even see. That bar snapped off while I was 2000 miles away at grad school after my perfectly straight teeth had settled in a crooked way back against the retainer, just as I knew it would. He refused to apply another bar retainer and gave me a bulky plastic appliance to wear at night. Then, in an episode of instant karma, the Dr died in a homemade plane he built, so I wrestled with various removable retainers for years. My teeth have not shifted back. That one sunken area where the retainer didn't support the teeth in front of it is now kept in check with Invisalign retainers. So make doubly sure of your orthodontist before.

Invisalign versus metal braces. If I had to do it all over again, I would still definitely have my teeth adjusted and I would still choose lingual braces. The constant pressure of metal braces means your teeth are adjusted more quickly. Yes you can remove Invisalign and yes it's convenient, but it's also like taking a cast off of a broken arm for a little while. Do you still heal? Sure. Does it take longer? Of course it does. With Invisalign, you're removing them to play and to eat. Playing in particular is a constant push on your teeth, then Invisalign pushes them back. This always struck me as a good way to loosen teeth. Whether that's true or not, I feel confident in saying that treatment with Invisalign would take longer. I have experience now with Invisalign retainers, which are exactly like the trays worn for adjustment. Please not that you can't leave them in to play. Your ortho will suggest or even insist on it. You can't play effectively with them in.

A word about permanent bar style retainers. They have an effect on both airflow and articulation. Invisalign is a far better option for retainers in my opinion. It's pretty incredible technology. You'll have a perfect mold of your teeth that holds them in place forever. Just don't lose them, get extras and get a plaster model of your teeth so you have a physical record of the alignment of your teeth in case you lose all Invisalign trays and something happens with your dentist being able to make new ones.

Also, get a second opinion! I've had experiences with some dental practices where they tried to route me through every area of the practice. Example: 20 years ago I was sick of wrestling with the enormous plastic retainer Dr Douchebag built for me after the bar retainer failed, so I went to Spring Street Dental in NYC. I saw the orthodontist at that practice, who barely examined me but was insistent that I needed to see their periodontist at once, since they had just added one to their staff. I went to a different orthodontist who said my gums looked perfectly healthy then proceeded to have Invisalign trays printed.

Also also, for the love of God, do not try eating a crunchy taco.

[TC933]

I’ve been a professional player and teacher in Chicago for over 30 years. About 18-19 years ago, my left upper front tooth “pushed through” and was causing quite a bit of pain inside my top upper lip. I went to see my dentist about it and he recommended Invisalign braces. He sent me to another dentist who specialized in this and luckily was a jazz saxophone player, and was very sympathetic to my situation.

The total cost was $4,000-$5,000 and if I paid for it up front, it was 10% off, so I did that. He told me my teeth had shifted a lot and I didn’t realize how crooked my teeth were between grinding my teeth and playing the trombone. I had braces as a kid and very straight teeth at one point.

As someone else already mentioned, you’re supposed to wear them 22-23 hours a day. You take them out to eat and brush your teeth. I did this process during the summer when I had more free time than during the school year. I put them in at night and then tried warming up on my horn the next morning. I tried playing with the braces in. That was impossible. I took the braces out and did a 20-30 minute warm up. It was already a little strange because my teeth had moved so much even only having them in for eight hours over night. After the warm up, I put them back in and then tried playing again a few hours later. I took them out to play and it was uncomfortable because my teeth had moved again because of wearing them even for only a few hours. I was in a bit of a panic because I thought I had wasted several thousand dollars on this and wasn’t going to work.

Ultimately I decided to try only wearing them over night when I slept. I asked my dentist and he told me to give it a try. Obviously the process would take longer, but it might work. I would put them in before going to bed, or if I had the evening off, I would put them in after dinner and wear them for 11-12 hours before taking them off in the morning.

This ended up working for me and believe it or not, I still have the last set of Invisalign braces that I use as a retainer and night guard to help with grinding my teeth. I clean them periodically with Efferdent.

Sorry for the long post. I hope someone will find it to be helpful.