The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
- WilliamLang
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
You should immediately reach out to Sasha. This is in poor taste at best unless you cleared it with her first.
William Lang
Interim Instructor, the University of Oklahoma
Faculty, Manhattan School of Music
Faculty, the Longy School of Music
Artist, Long Island Brass and Stephens Horns
founding member of loadbang
www.williamlang.org
Interim Instructor, the University of Oklahoma
Faculty, Manhattan School of Music
Faculty, the Longy School of Music
Artist, Long Island Brass and Stephens Horns
founding member of loadbang
www.williamlang.org
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
This x1000.WilliamLang wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 12:37 pm You should immediately reach out to Sasha. This is in poor taste at best unless you cleared it with her first.
trombone and composition faculty at CalArts
1/2 of RAGE Thormbones
they/them
https://mattiebarbier.bandcamp.com/
http://www.mattiebarbier.com/
1/2 of RAGE Thormbones
they/them
https://mattiebarbier.bandcamp.com/
http://www.mattiebarbier.com/
- WilliamLang
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
I would also add that unless Sasha cleared this, or says she is ok with it as is, I think it warrants a ban from this forum. I do not say this lightly or without thought.
William Lang
Interim Instructor, the University of Oklahoma
Faculty, Manhattan School of Music
Faculty, the Longy School of Music
Artist, Long Island Brass and Stephens Horns
founding member of loadbang
www.williamlang.org
Interim Instructor, the University of Oklahoma
Faculty, Manhattan School of Music
Faculty, the Longy School of Music
Artist, Long Island Brass and Stephens Horns
founding member of loadbang
www.williamlang.org
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
This has almost nothing to do with trombone.
- BrianJohnston
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
I think this post & this video steps on some pretty thin ice, if not directly into water...
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- SwissTbone
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
I didn't watch the video. Here's a suggestion to everyone out there:
Do like me. Put this guy on your ignore list amd don't support him by watching his stupid videos.
Actually.... he achieved something nobody else on the old forum or here on TC achieved. Making it on my ignore list is quite an achievement!
Do like me. Put this guy on your ignore list amd don't support him by watching his stupid videos.
Actually.... he achieved something nobody else on the old forum or here on TC achieved. Making it on my ignore list is quite an achievement!
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Like trombones? Head over to https://swisstbone.com/ to see some great vintage and custom horns!
Like trombones? Head over to https://swisstbone.com/ to see some great vintage and custom horns!
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
Haters gonna hate
Bach 42A - DE Silver XT N104 Rim, XT F+✯Cup, G8 Shank
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
As a trombonist who is on the trans spectrum, it's not about being a hater, it's about genuine concern of your publication of a video out about a trans person was done with her permission and input or if it's exclusively the voice of a cis man. That's not hate, that's like pretty basic respect towards Sasha. For many trans people this is also is a very serious and direct issue of their personal safety so such a flippant response is honest very concerning a big issue is whether or not Sasha had input and gave permission cause it's really messed up if she did not.
Last edited by mbarbier on Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
trombone and composition faculty at CalArts
1/2 of RAGE Thormbones
they/them
https://mattiebarbier.bandcamp.com/
http://www.mattiebarbier.com/
1/2 of RAGE Thormbones
they/them
https://mattiebarbier.bandcamp.com/
http://www.mattiebarbier.com/
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
How do you ignore someone if you acknowledge them in a reply comment?SwissTbone wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:11 pm I didn't watch the video. Here's a suggestion to everyone out there:
Do like me. Put this guy on your ignore list amd don't support him by watching his stupid videos.
Actually.... he achieved something nobody else on the old forum or here on TC achieved. Making it on my ignore list is quite an achievement!
Bach 42A - DE Silver XT N104 Rim, XT F+✯Cup, G8 Shank
- harrisonreed
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
TribuneJB, you say of yourself in the video that you "actually give a s*** about people" when all of your content is monetized or formerly monetized, or content that YouTube removed, that consists of videos exploiting people for your own gain and sometimes using people's identities as LGBTQ+ to do that, or plagiarizing people's work, or straight up infringing on their copyright protected media. You had a "documentary" that you did about a really young trombonist that felt like pure exploitation to me, not genuine. People here seemed to think it was cool, but it looked like a FB rip to me. So you could promote your own channel and slap ads on it. I don't think there is anything wrong with being self serving, but do it without exploiting or tearing down others, using their names and likenesses. Do it with your own ideas, or by challenging ideas with your own thoughts, or through your own merit.
It looks to me like you and Romero indeed collaborated on this video, with the interview and light saber sequence, but I find it hard to imagine that a professional would want this as the final product. She really approved this?
I think your line at 4:02 says it all, and is one of the most self-serving, embarrassing things you could have possibly said. "Even though I myself am not XYZ or anything, check out this great thing I am doing sharing this news with you"
I can't believe you would actually say that.
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
I was coordinating with that young child's mother, Laura, for the whole 6 months during the development of that documentary. I have hundreds of messages of correspondence between me and her during that time period as well.harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:42 pmYou had a "documentary" that you did about a really young trombonist that felt like pure exploitation to me, not genuine.
To your point on asking for permission first - I don't legally need to do so. Plus, it's better to do first and later ask for forgiveness as opposed to asking for permission. I know that's kinda sketch to do in the trombone world but I'm not a pro trombonist myself so I'm kinda well off in that regard unlike most others.
Bach 42A - DE Silver XT N104 Rim, XT F+✯Cup, G8 Shank
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
I will add that I thought Sasha’s playing - what I heard - was excellent.
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
Don't want to go into copyright topics etc. because I don't have much clue on that myself.
Generally speaking I had the impression that these videos are more or less the same way copied content as many other Youtube stuff.
On the content:
I think in the past there were a few interviews that may have been interesting to some although they are more on the less professional end. Not sure if these are still available as I understand some content has been blocked.
On the other hand there have been a number of videos that were at least for myself clearly within the range of bad taste.
It's partly the content itself but partly also the way it is presented in a partly disrespectful way.
While I am generally a proponent of free opinion and doing what's legally and morally accepted and perception of the last point may vary:
I am not yet an old man (maybe from your perspective?), but still would like to share a recommendation to the originator of this stuff.
You may not be or aim to be a professional, but you obviously want to be involved in the community.
Be more respectful of other people. I think it's not so much the actual topics, but more the way you present them and the attitude that some of us perceive from the presentation.
The internet doesn't forget and in 10 years you might view this differently. Maybe not.
Generally speaking I had the impression that these videos are more or less the same way copied content as many other Youtube stuff.
On the content:
I think in the past there were a few interviews that may have been interesting to some although they are more on the less professional end. Not sure if these are still available as I understand some content has been blocked.
On the other hand there have been a number of videos that were at least for myself clearly within the range of bad taste.
It's partly the content itself but partly also the way it is presented in a partly disrespectful way.
While I am generally a proponent of free opinion and doing what's legally and morally accepted and perception of the last point may vary:
I am not yet an old man (maybe from your perspective?), but still would like to share a recommendation to the originator of this stuff.
You may not be or aim to be a professional, but you obviously want to be involved in the community.
Be more respectful of other people. I think it's not so much the actual topics, but more the way you present them and the attitude that some of us perceive from the presentation.
The internet doesn't forget and in 10 years you might view this differently. Maybe not.
Markus Starke
https://www.mst-studio-mouthpieces.com/
Alto: Conn 35h, Kanstul, Weril
Tenor: 2x Conn 6h, Blessing medium, Elkhart 88H, 88HT, Greenhoe 88HT, Heckel, Piering replica
Bass: Conn 112h/62h, Greenhoe TIS, Conn 60h/"62h"
https://www.mst-studio-mouthpieces.com/
Alto: Conn 35h, Kanstul, Weril
Tenor: 2x Conn 6h, Blessing medium, Elkhart 88H, 88HT, Greenhoe 88HT, Heckel, Piering replica
Bass: Conn 112h/62h, Greenhoe TIS, Conn 60h/"62h"
- robcat2075
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
Much of the video seems like copyright violations if permission wasn't gained.trombonejb wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:41 pm To your point on asking for permission first - I don't legally need to do so.
That is a self-serving understatement of the limitations of "fair use"."Fair use is the doctrine that brief excerpts of copyrighted material can be used verbatim for purposes without the need for permission from or payment to the copyright holder."
I'm not convinced the video would meet the real tests of "fair use."
"Better" in that sentence really only means "easier".Plus, it's better to do first and later ask for forgiveness as opposed to asking for permission.
That's not a law or even a principle of journalism. It was just a joke.
The person who originated that comment was talking about how it was easier to do pioneering work without asking her superiors first. She wasn't talking about regurgitating other people's work.
And it only holds up if there was success at the end to trade for the failure to ask permission. The more common situation of failure after not getting permission first are the reason most of us live in a world where our superiors insist on being informed of what's going on.
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
One addition - not that my opinion would be especially important.
I do not find this to be a reason for exclusion from this forum as suggested by someone above.
Yes, it's bad taste and many of us do not like it.
But it is not openly anti minorities or individuals and I am convinced it's not meant this way, just badly made in an attempt to gain visibility and clicks...
I would suggest seeing this as an annoying an inappropriate action from a comparably young person who hopefully still learns something from it.
And I want to add one more point towards the originator: In case you consider "youtubing on trombone/brass" as (part of) your career, better do something else instead of trying to build visibility in this inappropriate way.
I do not find this to be a reason for exclusion from this forum as suggested by someone above.
Yes, it's bad taste and many of us do not like it.
But it is not openly anti minorities or individuals and I am convinced it's not meant this way, just badly made in an attempt to gain visibility and clicks...
I would suggest seeing this as an annoying an inappropriate action from a comparably young person who hopefully still learns something from it.
And I want to add one more point towards the originator: In case you consider "youtubing on trombone/brass" as (part of) your career, better do something else instead of trying to build visibility in this inappropriate way.
Markus Starke
https://www.mst-studio-mouthpieces.com/
Alto: Conn 35h, Kanstul, Weril
Tenor: 2x Conn 6h, Blessing medium, Elkhart 88H, 88HT, Greenhoe 88HT, Heckel, Piering replica
Bass: Conn 112h/62h, Greenhoe TIS, Conn 60h/"62h"
https://www.mst-studio-mouthpieces.com/
Alto: Conn 35h, Kanstul, Weril
Tenor: 2x Conn 6h, Blessing medium, Elkhart 88H, 88HT, Greenhoe 88HT, Heckel, Piering replica
Bass: Conn 112h/62h, Greenhoe TIS, Conn 60h/"62h"
- LeTromboniste
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
I guess you're right, you don't legally need to be a decent human being. Thanks for clearing that up...trombonejb wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:41 pm To your point on asking for permission first - I don't legally need to do so.
+1 to the recommendation to ignore this guy's posts, and wouldn't be against a ban. Beyond the extreme bad taste of most of the production in most of his videos, he's shown consistently that he has no respect or consideration for other members of our community and will use them, their likeness, their original content and/or their work for his own gain. There's a clear pattern of abusive behaviour towards individuals and our community generally, and he's not even hiding it, as seen above.
Maximilien Brisson
www.maximilienbrisson.com
Lecturer for baroque trombone,
Hfk Bremen/University of the Arts Bremen
www.maximilienbrisson.com
Lecturer for baroque trombone,
Hfk Bremen/University of the Arts Bremen
- BoomtownRath
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
Well put......LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:00 amI guess you're right, you don't legally need to be a decent human being. Thanks for clearing that up...trombonejb wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:41 pm To your point on asking for permission first - I don't legally need to do so.
+1 to the recommendation to ignore this guy's posts, and wouldn't be against a ban. Beyond the extreme bad taste of most of the production in most of his videos, he's shown consistently that he has no respect or consideration for other members of our community and will use them, their likeness, their original content and/or their work for his own gain. There's a clear pattern of abusive behaviour towards individuals and our community generally, and he's not even hiding it, as seen above.
- elmsandr
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
Terrible person makes another questionable video?
Seriously, please ban this person. They have had the opportunity to learn and continue to demonstrate that they have no intention of being decent.
Cheers,
Andy
Seriously, please ban this person. They have had the opportunity to learn and continue to demonstrate that they have no intention of being decent.
Cheers,
Andy
- ithinknot
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
Not many defenders.
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
trombonejb wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:41 pm
I was coordinating with that young child's mother, Laura, for the whole 6 months during the development of that documentary. I have hundreds of messages of correspondence between me and her during that time period as well.
Correspondence does not equal permission. Permission is a specific act that all parties acknowledge. Another related term is informed consent. It means that the person who is sharing information with you has been informed of the uses of that information and any possible consequences. I have my doubts whether trombonejb requested permission, and informed the individuals about the ramifications of publishing said correspondence.
This is what I object to: “I know it’s kinda sketch in the trombone world…” Then why on earth would you do such a thing? If your conscience and your sense of decency were already giving you pause, you should have listened to yourself and stopped what you were doing.trombonejb wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:41 pm
To your point on asking for permission first - I don't legally need to do so. Plus, it's better to do first and later ask for forgiveness as opposed to asking for permission. I know that's kinda sketch to do in the trombone world but I'm not a pro trombonist myself so I'm kinda well off in that regard unlike most others.
Your statement, “…but I’m not a pro trombonist myself…” is no excuse. In fact, if you ever had any desire to become a professional trombonist, I believe you have just dashed your own hopes by shooting yourself in the foot.
Whenever you meet with minors or persons of a marginalized community (however that is interpreted), reasonable and caring people will ask permission before publishing any content. For sensitive information, e.g., medical records, consent and authorizations are legally required. Explicit written permission is legally required for minors—the parents must sign an authorization. I hope you have these, and I hope you have one for all the people you mention.
As an aside, I hope that the bass trombonist from the Marinsky Theater has some repercussions from his posts. And by the way, I hope you received explicit permission from the parent of that young girl, and I hope you received permission to post information about the Met trombonist. I doubt you even obtained permission to post the private correspondence from him.
I would add that this kind of attitude is behind much of the “change” we see in this world, change that is justified by the phrase, “what is not expressly forbidden is allowed.” Just because you can do something—it’s not forbidden—doesn’t mean you should. It may be an acceptable doctrine under Article II in US constitutional law, but it doesn’t work if you want to be an accepted member of a community. This approach will quickly alienate you. I believe it already has.
For my part, I would ask the moderators to discuss seriously whether TC should allow such insensitive, puerile, objectionable and tacky nonsense, and discuss banning the individual trombonejb from this forum.
Kenneth Biggs
I have known a great many troubles, but most of them have never happened.
—Mark Twain (attributed)
I have known a great many troubles, but most of them have never happened.
—Mark Twain (attributed)
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
As a trans woman, this video made me genuinely nauseous.
"I'm not gay or anything...", then proceeds to recite a laundry list of slurs that were weaponized against a trans woman.
Please, stop making videos. They're garbage
"I'm not gay or anything...", then proceeds to recite a laundry list of slurs that were weaponized against a trans woman.
Please, stop making videos. They're garbage
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
gracytomek wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:46 pm As a trans woman, this video made me genuinely nauseous.
"I'm not gay or anything...", then proceeds to recite a laundry list of slurs that were weaponized against a trans woman.
Please, stop making videos. They're garbage
--Andy in OKC
- harrisonreed
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
Yeah, that's what I was referring to as well. No matter what you put after that statement, it's not going to be positive.gracytomek wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:46 pm As a trans woman, this video made me genuinely nauseous.
"I'm not gay or anything...", then proceeds to recite a laundry list of slurs that were weaponized against a trans woman.
Please, stop making videos. They're garbage
- greenbean
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
This behavior is pathetic.
Tom in San Francisco
Currently playing...
Bach Corp 16M
Many French horns
Currently playing...
Bach Corp 16M
Many French horns
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
So I live in a cave and knew nothing about this artist, nor the OP, until now. First off, great playing by Sasha, and an inspiring story in making a career happen! OTOH, if this was promulgated without Sasha's clear consent, then it is horsesh**t. OP might fancy themself to be a journalist, but there are state-based legal rights of privacy and rights of publicity that are more likely to govern this story than purported First Amendment concerns - and "fair use" is an utter red herring, with no bearing on what's happened here. Rights to control unauthorized use of image and likeness vary from state, and IIRC, are press-friendly in NY, while CA is artist-friendly. Anyhow, if Sasha is not on board with this dissemination, I hope they can lawyer up - hard. And "I'm not gay?" Really? Who cares? Is this post about the artist in question, or about the OP's comfort zone? Again, I live in a cave and don't get out much, but I'm appalled to see someone appropriating this story to make their own, twisted point. Sheesh - I thought trombonists were section-oriented team players! Another illusion shattered...
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
Can someone tell me why the OP is still allowed to post this drivel here? This isn’t the first time they’ve done it and something needs to be done. This isn’t about “cancelling” or anything like that. The content is plainly offensive, amateurish, in this case insulting to Sasha and the transgender community and may even violate copyright in some cases. The fact that no one here is defending this except for the OP ought to be a clear signal this is unacceptable. The administration of this site can and must do better or I have no choice to believe they are OK with this. If that’s the case. I will reassess my desire to visit and participate.
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
Two good things for me about this kerfuffle:
1. Great support for diversity and tolerance from the TromboneChat community.
2. I have been introduced to the artistry of yet another very fine trombonist -
https://www.sasharomeromusic.com/videos
1. Great support for diversity and tolerance from the TromboneChat community.
2. I have been introduced to the artistry of yet another very fine trombonist -
https://www.sasharomeromusic.com/videos
- spencercarran
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
Your habitual content thieving/copyright violations aside, this sort of behavior may not be technically criminal but it definitely does make you an asshole. Please just go away.trombonejb wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:41 pmTo your point on asking for permission first - I don't legally need to do so. Plus, it's better to do first and later ask for forgiveness as opposed to asking for permission.
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
Where are the mods regarding this thread? It needs to be reviewed and consider whether it should be locked. I reported it this morning. I urge the OP to reflect inward regarding whom these videos and posts serve. It is clear they don't serve the trombonechat community. If you find this material is more about you or personal web stats then I recommend ceasing the creation of all media until you can definitely address the legality of your material and answer how this benefits the trombone community. Otherwise I recommend the OP be banned.
- greenbean
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
^ This.
Any mods around?…
Any mods around?…
Tom in San Francisco
Currently playing...
Bach Corp 16M
Many French horns
Currently playing...
Bach Corp 16M
Many French horns
- JKno
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
Maybe they felt trombonejb hadn't been kicked enough?
- Matt K
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Re: The Principal Trombone of the MET Opera Has Some News for You
Trombonejb is no longer a member of the forum. Locking this thread.