David Concertino cadenza

[brassduoDJ]

I will be performing this piece soon with a local university orchestra. Anyone have any ideas of what to do for a cadenza? There are youtube vids of crazy awesome cadenzas but nothing practical for the amount of time I have to prepare. Ideas?
Usable range is double pedal Bb to G or so above high Bb. This will be performed either on small bore Holton with no F attachment and a 5G mpc OR large bore tenor with F attachment and V3 Griego mpc.

[harrisonreed]

I will be performing this piece soon with a local university orchestra. Anyone have any ideas of what to do for a cadenza? There are youtube vids of crazy awesome cadenzas but nothing practical for the amount of time I have to prepare. Ideas?
Usable range is double pedal Bb to G or so above high Bb. This will be performed either on small bore Holton with no F attachment and a 5G mpc OR large bore tenor with F attachment and V3 Griego mpc.

How are you getting out double pedal Bbs lol?

Just play the cadenza as written.

[MStarke]

Well, definitely bring in double pedal Bb and G above high Bb then! Just because...

Seriously - as Harrison said - the standard cadenza is quite fitting if I remember correctly.

And as a side note: While neither a small bore Holton nor an (American) large bore would be historically correct, the large bore is certainly the expected instrument and in my opinion has the more appropriate sound for this.
Plus the attachment may be practical in a few places.

Look up the Jürgen Heinel recording on Youtube if you want to hear some "old school German" playing. While it may sound a little bit dated, it does have some character that other popular (again American) players may be missing here.
The Lindberg recording is totally different, but obviously a great reference.

[brassduoDJ]

Wow- this is super helpful! This community seems to be much more interested in helping each other in general I have noticed- how refreshing! I am listening to that recording now and am immediately struck by the awesome thoughtfulness given to each note by both the orchestra and soloist. And what command of tone, dynamics and utter sweetness of sound this man has!!! This gives me some direction- much appreciated!!

[brassduoDJ]

I will be performing this piece soon with a local university orchestra. Anyone have any ideas of what to do for a cadenza? There are youtube vids of crazy awesome cadenzas but nothing practical for the amount of time I have to prepare. Ideas?
Usable range is double pedal Bb to G or so above high Bb. This will be performed either on small bore Holton with no F attachment and a 5G mpc OR large bore tenor with F attachment and V3 Griego mpc.

There is wisdom in just playing the cadenza as written- it is the trumpet player in me that is always seeking to hotdog... as I listen to this recording of Jürgen Heinel that was kindly suggested by MStarke - I am struck by the depth of expression in the tone of the soloist - and plenty of technique is already present in the written work.
Thank you for the suggestion!!

[Matt K]

Iirc the Lindbergh recording of this is really good. He takes a few liberties with the cadenza, but it still fits very well and seems in character. Mostly it consists of 8va stuff for some of the recapitulations like the motif from the 2nd movement.

[MStarke]

If I remember correctly, Christian Lindberg also takes some passages outside the cadenza up an octave - which in this case is done musically appropriate.

There is from my knowledge also a recording by Olaf Ott/Berlin Phil, I think with a Japanese orchestra. from my memory it also contains the Groehndahl concerto and maybe Larsson?
I have it somewhere, but cannot find it right now.
It's obviously great playing, but not as characteristic as Jurgen Heinel.

[MStarke]

And one more:


That's some parts of Ian Bousfield playing David on the Egger replica of a traditional German trombone.
I find this interpretation to also be quite interesting and considered as potential input for your inspiration.

Some observations more on the technical end - though to be taken with a grain of salt as the live recording may potentially be misleading a bit:
- The total volume coming from Ian's playing seems less than expected with an American trombone. It sounds less direct and a bit more covered
- Articulations are clean, but not as present as with other recordings
- Both would fit to playing on a German trombone which tends to a) not build the same total volume, b) have a generally darker, less defined/direct sound and c) cover up articulations
- While Ian also sounds great in this recording, I would assume that playing his Getzen would sound VERY different
- The Jürgen Heinel recording on the other hand shows that a player growing up playing German trombones can totally maneuver around these topics where appropriate

And a little more German trombone nerdiness:


For me that is probably the most beautiful Rhenish symphony chorale (from my knowledge also a set of replica trombones by Egger).

[LeTromboniste]

Well, I would first ask this question: is it actually a cadenza, in the traditional sense? And if it is, are all cadenzas "ad lib" or should sometimes follow what the composer wrote? And what's the role of a cadenza, and of this passage in particular?

Whatever you do, I would follow the harmonic form of the original, with your solo material connecting the chords of the orchestra hits. I would also avoid extending it too long(I find Lindberg's ridiculously long and going so far out harmonically that you lose all sense where things were going, also going over every theme and motive of the piece, which I don't think is what we need at that point). Remember that a cadenza is above all an ornamentation of harmony, not merely an abstract opportunity to show off. And it's a place to show off your good taste and ability to improvise (or write) something tasteful and in the style, rather than merely showing off range and technique. Arguably, one shouldn't try to show much more range and virtuosity in the cadenza than what is actually already in the piece. Virtually all sources that deal with improvising or writing cadenzas up until that point usually caution against trying to do too much or making it too long. Often, for wind instruments and singers, it's recommended that it should be playable in one breath (!).

As epic, idiomatically Romantic, and a "serious" piece as the David is, also remember that this isn't a 30-40 minute piano or violin concerto, so maybe having a super long cadenza doesn't make sense in terms of proportions. It's a much shorter concertino and essentially in one movement — note that there are no gaps between the "movements" and if you look at the whole piece as one thing, you immediately see that it's written in an absolutely textbook sonata form. When seen as such, the cadenza is not so much the conclusion of a movement, as it is in the middle of the development section (which starts with the long orchestral passage after the trombone trills and long scale down) and a way to depart from the first portion of it that is thematically linked to the rest of the piece, and transition into the second portion of it that is completely new material: the funeral march. The written out recitativo does an awesome job of changing the character and introduce the very vocal style of the funeral march, and also of reintroducing the trombone in a much nicer way than if he simply brought us back in in the funeral march. So I don't see much reason to change it, and if I did I'd want to play something that achieves the same goal. But I think David wrote something that is both highly effective, and also idiomatic, so I personally don't feel the need to change it. I have yet to hear an alternative or improvised cadenza in this piece that actually introduces the funeral march better than what David wrote.

[MStarke]

Maximilien, I am often pretty amazed by your perspectives! Thanks for the explanation!