Curved D slide for Duo Gravis

[heldenbone]

I recently acquired a beautiful Duo Gravis that will be the subject of a "New Horn Day" post once I'm done messing with it to suit me. Thank you to the two fellow 'chatters; one who allowed me to play his for an hour, and the other who offered one for sale. I'm having the triggers split, but in the interim have raised the F paddle surface a couple millimeters above the D. My thumb has been most appreciative.

Has anyone seen or fashioned a D slide that doesn't extend way out beyond the main tuning slide? I'm thinking maybe a French horn-style curve similar to the F slide? The straight inline extension is economical and plays well, but it's attraction for dents and torque to the valve block concerns me. Anyone?

[jpwell]

Ya
I’ll email u a picture

[2bobone]

" I'm having the triggers split, but in the interim have raised the F paddle surface a couple millimeters above the D. My thumb has been most appreciative."

I did that several decades ago and still think the King's trigger setup to be far superior to a "split" trigger.

[jpwell]

+1 on the factory triggers

[EriKon]

Much more in favor of the split triggers. My thumb starts hurting in next to no time with the factory double trigger system. Very happy to have mine splitted by Lätzsch.

[hyperbolica]

" I'm having the triggers split, but in the interim have raised the F paddle surface a couple millimeters above the D. My thumb has been most appreciative."

I did that several decades ago and still think the King's trigger setup to be far superior to a "split" trigger.

I tried the factory triggers on DG and really didn't like them. Could you make a video and demonstrate how you use them? The joke goes that you need double jointed thumbs to make it work. I've got double jointed thumbs! And I still couldn't make it work. The Olds double trigger system was even worse, but I kind of liked the Holton Glantz bar and less so the Conn sax roller system. So I'm not against all the pre-middle-finger paddle systems, but the thumb is a clumsy finger.

Anyway, I'd just be interested to see how you make it work.

[2bobone]

When you think about all of the hands that you shook in greetings over the years, you are probably aware of the huge differences between them all. Some are short and "stubby", some are HUGE, some are tiny [not a political statement] but all are different. I suppose that this is why there is so much disagreement among trombonists as to the efficiency of various trigger setups. They are all of a very personal choice to be made and not a one of us is correct in any meaningful way other than that "it works for me" !
I always enjoyed the King Duo Gravis setup and realized at the beginning of that relationship that it was a winner for me. Of course, it was a dependent setup and when I later added a King 8B to my arsenal I carried the dependent trigger technique directly over to that independent 8B. I never was a big fan of the split triggers on the 8B and missed the bell brace support of the Duo Gravis, but that is what you got when you bought a horn in those days. You adjusted to the horn, not vice versa. The 8B not only lacked the bell brace support but added to the grip problems that so many bass trombonists experience by removing the support of the strong middle finger to assign it to the split trigger. Ridiculous !
Anyway, I shrink-wrapped a thick rubber pad onto the "F" lever so that when it was depressed its surface aligned with the surface of the "G Flat" lever. There is not enough leeway in the lever mechanism to make the required adjustment. I used the thumb in a very stiff and straight manner, depressing the "F" lever with the portion of my thumb below the first joint, only bending that joint when I activated the "G Flat" lever together with the "F" lever. I'm aware that the "G Flat" valve can be used alone in an independent setup like my 8B has but I never found that to be necessary or particularly useful. Others may disagree. The Duo Gravis triggers have always been my favorite setup. I think Alan Raph might agree but, alas, he is no longer able to voice an opinion. RIP Alan.
I only met one person who was unable to bend his thumb at the first joint and he was a former student who had a bad accident falling on some broken glass which injured his left thumb and rendered the joint unusable. He had his Duo Gravis converted to split triggers as a workaround.
I hope this explanation is clear and helpful.

[2bobone]

BTW --- I also like the "Glantz Bar" !

[boneagain]

Bob,
I have it on authority (from George McCracken AND Alan Raph himself) that Alan DID much prefer the side-by-side triggers over splits or other configurations (George tried a few before settling on what you have now.)

[boneagain]

Heldenbone,

If you can come up with a shape that meets your needs, a good tech can bend up something for you.

These twist ties are great for mocking up such a shape:
https://www.amazon.com/foam-twist-ties/ ... twist+ties

Pull out the old D slide
Lay the twist tie along that length
Reshape to your heart's content
avoid ANY bends sharper than the crook at the end of the D slide
Keep an eye out for places water could get stuck!
Remember that pulling the slide is much complicated by the location of the main tuning slide brace!

[jmgroveandass]

Ya
I’ll email u a picture

Any chance you could forward to me as well. I purchased my Duo Gravis in 1971 as a sophmore in High School and it did not have the "D" slide, just the "F" and the "B". I would like to have one made for it but like "heldenbone's" idea.

[heldenbone]

This is what boneagain kindly sent me. It isn't a huge change from the stock extender, as his tech chose to expand the legs of the extender so it would have a wider - longer crook. The first picture is the stock extender I have at the moment. The second is the custom slide boneagain sourced.

[Mertelstein]

I've always found the stock triggers work really really well - no double-jointed thumbs here, but a lot of sympathy for 2bobone's comment that you adjust to the horn. I played a Duo Gravis since I was 14 and guess I've just adjusted to that. But totally get it doesn't work for others - I can't stand the sax-type rollers on my Conn bass so having those triggers split.

The thing I love about the stock set-up is the rapidity of being able to change between double- and single-triggers. The DG is a truly amazing horn in my personal view, ergonomically and in terms of ease of playing. I just wish that I could use it in more set-ups.

[Mertelstein]

This is what boneagain kindly sent me. It isn't a huge change from the stock extender, as his tech chose to expand the legs of the extender so it would have a wider - longer crook. The first picture is the stock extender I have at the moment. The second is the custom slide boneagain sourced.

I just had a very similar crook made for my 73H to replace the original custom D crook which was modelled after my DG one (which was actually mis-sized and not airtight). It plays a LOT better on my 73H, and feels indistinguishable from my DG second trigger, so in terms of playability you hopefully wouldn't notice a difference.

One thing I will say is size wise, there's not that much difference between the height of the stock D crook and the new one; so if it's to avoid the "dent potential" you might be best sticking with the suggestion by boneagain to come up with your own design. Could you model it after one of the "tight" closed wraps of (eg) a Bach 50?

[heldenbone]

I have in mind something that mirrors the F slide, adopting a similar horn valve slide shape.
I'm talking to a tech who is willing to bend some pipe. I'll post a picture if anything comes of it.

[jmgroveandass]

Would someone who has an original "D" slide measure it from outside of ferrule to outside of ferrule and reply to me? It would be much appreciated.