Bill Watrous & Carl Fontana Recording

[KWL]

I’m disappointed this recording hasn’t been reissued in the U.S. And just as rare is that Renault R5 Turbo they are leaning on, some selling for over six figures USD on Bring a Trailer.

http://projazz.net/bill-watrous-carl-fo ... l-fontana/

[baileyman]

I got a chance to thank Bill for this one, that it is the most beautiful of all the trombone records.

He said something like, I couldn't get Carl to commit to this. He kept complaining about new tunes and schedules. I said, Look Fontana I'm going to tell everyone you're afraid to show up in the studio with me.

I can't remember what and where in that all the expletives were.

[tbdana]

I got a chance to thank Bill for this one, that it is the most beautiful of all the trombone records.

He said something like, I couldn't get Carl to commit to this. He kept complaining about new tunes and schedules. I said, Look Fontana I'm going to tell everyone you're afraid to show up in the studio with me.

I can't remember what and where in that all the expletives were.

I heard a similar story from Bill, but I'm not sure how true it is. I took those kinds of stories from him with a grain of salt. But that does sound like him.

Perhaps the one thing about Bill's approach to jazz that I found off-putting was that he looked at jazz as a competitive event rather than artistic expression. Bill enjoyed "beating" other soloists, like it was an athletic competition. He'd compare solos and talk about about how he "really smoked that guy." When Bill was in charge of the gig he'd sometimes take people he thought were competition (or if he didn't like them) and just make/"let" them solo chorus after chorus until they finally ran out of ideas, and then he "let" them play another couple choruses just so they would end sounding not their best. He would literally tell them to keep going when they tried to stop. Most did. Then Watrous would take his turn and try to "smoke that guy" with his own solo. I suppose that way of thinking is what drove him to become so effing good. But it also inspired him to tell exaggerated stories like this one attributed to him about Carl Fontana. Could be completely true. Could not be.

I know Bill admired Carl, but also saw Carl as his biggest "competition." Rosolino was another he thought of as "competition," but their styles were so dissimilar that he didn't worry about Frank the way he did Carl.

[baileyman]

I suppose there are lots of questions that now will never be answered.

I had an old friend who was in the Navy and knew Bill then. I asked what he played like. "He sounded just like everyone else." Something must've happened.

I think I recall a story from somewhere that Bill heard Carl, and then woodshedded for an extended time to figure this out. Did I make that up myself? I dunno. But it does match my impression that Bill seems to have always been chasing Carl. With lots of success for sure, as I confess there are times when I have to cock my ear to make sure it's one or the other. (Bill wins the high note competition!) But there are dead giveaways.

Time is the biggest one. When Carl played he contributed time to the band, every band. Most all players use time from the others. Then there's the funk. The tensions, the rhythms. From square to funky the rank might go JJ, Bill, Frank, and finally Carl with great heaping piles of steaming hot funky. It may be the funk Bill was talking about when he admired Carl's "slipping" technique.

[tbdana]

I suppose there are lots of questions that now will never be answered.

I had an old friend who was in the Navy and knew Bill then. I asked what he played like. "He sounded just like everyone else." Something must've happened.

I think I recall a story from somewhere that Bill heard Carl, and then woodshedded for an extended time to figure this out. Did I make that up myself? I dunno.

Bill told me that it was Urbie Green that got him going. But we all take from lots of different musicians, right?

I know that when I first heard Watrous as a sideman on Sy Zentner's band, he didn't stand out at all. But when I heard his cadenza on Fourth Floor Walkup in the '70s I couldn't believe it was the same guy, and knew right then that I could either throw my horn in the trash or lock myself in my practice room forever, and there weren't any other options. LOL

[Matt K]

FWIW, I'd actually heard a similarish story that had the opposite impression. I'd heard an audience member once told Bill that he'd "smoked" someone (IIRC Carl actually) and he told the guy off about how music isn't a competition etc. etc.

[Bach5G]

“Music is not a competition, but I won.”

[tbdana]

FWIW, I'd actually heard a similarish story that had the opposite impression. I'd heard an audience member once told Bill that he'd "smoked" someone (IIRC Carl actually) and he told the guy off about how music isn't a competition etc. etc.

Okay. I'm not sure how to respond to that, except to say that mine isn't a story, it's 15 years of personal experience hanging out with the man, playing with him, and being one of the players he regularly "smoked." (And we might have had another kind of "smoking" from time to time, too...)

But I fear I have derailed this thread about the Bill+Carl album, so I'll shut up now. ("Finally!" )

[Matt K]

I'm sure your accounting is more accurate, mine is exactly as you described: an anecdote.