Articulation

[Jesusibarra956]

Hi everyone! Hope y'all are staying safe!

I've been having a pretty nasty habit forming for a little while regarding the starts of my notes.
For some reason, I can't seem to start them! I take a big breath in, and when I attempt to play, my tongue just... stops and stays stuck on the roof of my mouth, blocking all air movement. I try to re-articulate but I just can't seem to do it. I've tried starting notes with a metronome and it seems to help, but when it comes down to starting a note on my own, my tongue holds me back. It started with only lower notes (Bb2 and down) but now I'm having this issue even in the middle range(C3 to around Bb3). Has anyone else ever had this problem? If you did, could you give me any tips or exercises to do to fix this? Thanks!

[Doug Elliott]

It's not an uncommon problem. Yes it's a nasty habit and you need to develop new habits.

The first thing(s) to do:

Take smaller breaths. You don't need that much air and it only creates tension.

Air goes in and out. NEVER hold your breath. In and out. In normal life you virtually never hold your breath unless you're under water. Breathe in, blow out. Practice it. A lot. Make it a new habit.

Temporarily stop using your tongue to start phrases. It's OK to articulate lightly DURING a phrase but start everything with breath only.

[FOSSIL]

What Doug said. The Reinhardt and Jacobs schools have a pretty common approach on this. Caruso was a little different, using rhythm and foot tapping, but I have helped many players with this issue using what Doug said. It's not easy and you have to stick with it.

Chris

[Jesusibarra956]

Thank you both!

[imsevimse]

I've had it too.

When I studied at the Royal Accademy of Music in the 80ies I got that same problem caused by a teacher who interrupted me constantly as I started He had probably no idea how to correct the real problem with my attack and just wanted me to go home and practice more. He did not see he created a worse problem. After a while I could not play anything.

You said you do better if you have a metronome? I can relate to that too. When you are in the flow then there is no problem to attack? The problem just happens at the very start when there is no "flow" and you have to start the flow? That was my situation, exactly.

My solution in the 80ies was to imagine the flow was already there.

I imagined I had already played the two first bars. I began to sing the first two bars inside my head and then made a repeat where I started to play for real. It worked and it also had me better prepared for what ever I was going to play with tempo and character. This method was something I came up with myself and it helped me to overcome the problem at that time. Later I studied the Caruso "six notes" and that helped too and as Doug and Chris said "breath-in-breath-out" (in one movement).

The drawback with my method above and also the solution Doug and Chris presented is when you are in an orchestra and is guided by a conductor

In the orchestra you need to follow the baton. You can not imagine two empty bars in that situation. Also the breath-in-breath-out (in one movement) has its limitations sometimes. If the conductor does not give you much time then you have not time to breath in. Many times the conductor holds his hands in a raised position and in an instant move one hand in your direction to make you play without any time for you to prepare much. In these cases if you need lots of air you need to have taken that big breath already, and hold on to it. But not hold on to it with the tounge in place or with a closed throat. You need to be able to hold the breath with throat open and tounge ready but not "in the way" of the air. You can then do a fast attack in an instance. To get there you can use the "breath-in-breath-out" (in one movement) to overcome the "lock" of air problem you have. Later you can practice breath in and hold, and breath out and hold without to bottle the air anywhere. When I began to play in orchestras I had to address the problem from that latter angle.

Just stay open in an upright position with throat open and no tongue in the way. Try to find that open posture and hold it and then you just think "remove" the tounge even though it is not there. Never focus on "to put it there".

/Tom

[FOSSIL]

Good points Tom...I've used that imaginary pre play bar trick with students myself and it works but you are right about the limitations, especially in an orchestra. Conductors can be a royal pain in many ways but you can usually contrive a continuous in out breath, even in a 'hanging arms' situation. I'm lucky and can hold breath and let it out under control, but many many players are not so lucky and it is very hard to overcome this.
I have also used a metronome with players but they have to internalize the pulse or it can make matters worse.

Chris

[timothy42b]

Might just be me, but conductors who raise their arms then think of one more thing to say, with their arms still up, drive me nuts, and I think sometimes starts this.

When they're at the podium I'm paying attention, and when they raise their arms I prepare to play. Two different modes. We had one conductor where we did an agreement with the band president and officers, suggesting to him he was about to lose some pro level players if he didn't "follow the rules." Our part of the bargain was that when he stepped into the podium space we stopped anything we were doing and paid attention.

[PhilTrombone]

Doing the Caruso exercises (well, some of them) might help implement the fine suggestions already made here.
You can find them at this link:
http://www.julielandsman.com/gallery

The first one, " The Six Notes" might help you. Try it for a few weeks.
I come back to these exercises frequently to revisit the basics.


Sidebar:

Might just be me, but conductors who raise their arms then think of one more thing to say, with their arms still up, drive me nuts, and I think sometimes starts this.

It's not just you! Totally hate this!!!
I never understand why so many conductors do this during rehearsals

[Doug Elliott]

A few more thoughts on this:

I am not a fan of the metronome for this purpose -it's a crutch and I like to avoid that sort of thing.

I have an exercise where you blow lightly, trying for a whisper-soft note, and don't worry at all about when (or if) the note starts. It will start eventually, and you learn from that and develop better soft response, which becomes a better awareness of how to start when do need to be in time. The whole object is to ALREADY be in position for the note to vibrate.

When following the uncertain timing of a conductor's downbeat or a cue in a show:
I take the breath with the mouthpiece already in position to play, and then continue to breathe in and out slightly rather than holding it. I'm totally ready to play instantly, but NOT holding my breath.

[Jesusibarra956]

I appreciate the advice everyone! I'm definitely going to look into the Caruso studies PhilTrombone mentioned.

[Kbiggs]

I worked with a “hanging arms” conductor for a few seasons. I don’t know how my section mates did it, but I worked on having partially full lungs— 1/2, maybe 3/4— and kept the throat, tongue and embouchure relaxed. At the last moment, I would move the embouchure in place and breathe in the last little bit.

The trick with this somewhat radical suggestion is to keep the throat, tongue, neck, etc., relaxed while having air in the lungs, and the belly and chest expanded. I avoided the tension-and-build-up problem, and decreased the number of false starts and exploding starts.

Again, it’s a radical way of doing it, and I’m not sure I would suggest it, but it worked at the time.

[FOSSIL]

I appreciate the advice everyone! I'm definitely going to look into the Caruso studies PhilTrombone mentioned.

Just remember that if you come to rely on foot tapping, you will not be popular with some groups, especially orchestra and chamber.

Chris

[GabrielRice]

You're getting great advice. This is an issue that many more players than you realize struggle with. It comes up for many professionals mid-career.

One of my closest friends and colleagues is among the best trombone players you've never heard of, principal of several per-service orchestras in New England. He won auditions during a time when he was struggling with exactly what you describe, and he did it by doing exactly what Doug recommends: every single phrase began with a breath attack. He doesn't need to do that anymore, but there was a period of years in the prime of his career when that was the only way he could start a phrase when he intended.

Another word of caution about Caruso exercises: every detail of HOW to do them is important, and it's essential to have a clear idea of what you're doing. Watch the videos by Julie Landsman; note that she always subdivides 16th notes before the first note of an exercise. That's absolutely essential.

I will add another exercise to do in your practicing: Legato Air/Marcato Tongue. I like to do this with simple scale/arpeggio melodies, like you find in the First Studies at the front of the Arbans book (#11 is the one I always start people with on this). Play about mf-poco f, start the first note with a breath attack if that's what you;re doing right now, and then keep the air in contact with the vibration that way you do for the smoothest legato, while you continue with pointed marcato tongue. Do not stop the sound! No space between notes whatsoever. Pay attention to the note shapes - keep them open throughout, beginning to end. Hint: an AH or OH vowel makes this more difficult. An OOOH vowel allows more efficiency of the tongue motion.

Tongue at least as hard or harder than you ever do in an ensemble. This is not about exploring the most musical way to play; it's about practicing at the extremes in order to challenge your physical habits. This exercise forces your body to find the most efficient tongue motion (and slide motion while you're at it). It has to come in quickly and get out of the way quickly or the sound stops.

[GabrielRice]

While I'm at it, I'll suggest another exercise which will also help your internal subdivision. This one is best communicated in person, or in this video I made about it:

[media]<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/giVrsqgotDE" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/media]

I tried to embed the video, but I don't think it worked...

[Doug Elliott]

Treat problems, not symptoms.

Timing and subdivisions are extremely important in playing, but for this I think that's treating a symptom and ignoring the problem.

The technique Gabe described two posts up is valuable. Reinhardt had a similar thing he called Hoo-Doo-Too.

Almost all articulation problems are really response problems. Treat the response issue, not the symptoms. And that's totally related to everything you do BEFORE the first note. How and when you form your embouchure, how and when you place the mouthpiece, how and when you inhale, how and when you start that first note.

[imsevimse]

Treat problems, not symptoms.

Timing and subdivisions are extremely important in playing, but for this I think that's treating a symptom and ignoring the problem.

The technique Gabe described two posts up is valuable. Reinhardt had a similar thing he called Hoo-Doo-Too.

Almost all articulation problems are really response problems. Treat the response issue, not the symptoms. And that's totally related to everything you do BEFORE the first note. How and when you form your embouchure, how and when you place the mouthpiece, how and when you inhale, how and when you start that first note.

I agree that the problem is what has to go, but we also have to consider this sort of a problem can be a mental block problem or it fast becomes a mental block problem.

I think the way to treat any mental block problems is to make the brain occupied with something new. It could be to count a few sheeps just as you start your tone, even that might work. If it is a mental block then one part of the receipt is it needs to be something that draws your attention away from the actual problem.

What causes the real problem is tounge and throat that locks the air but hopefully if it is isolated to the initial attack you may not need to talk about that.

Many good advice here. I think breath attacks are good because they both focus on efficiency and to do something that feel weird enough and overloads the brain in a good way. The two bar prepare I described is another method that completely changes your brains focus from the bottle up air problem. In that case you need to sing the first two bars inside and then switch very fast to playing, not giving time to think of where you put the tongue. Gabes video of subdiving also makes the brain occupied, same with the Caruso six tones and all those sixteenth notes you subdivide before you play. "Breath-in-breath-out" in one movement also make a student occupied with something else but the problem.

As Chris said he can hold the breath and stay open with air. Maybe it is a difficult thing to learn and people instead make the breath-in process longer when they play with a conductor that waits with his/her arms raised. It is not impossible to overcome. I have no problem to hold air and stay open and not bottle up the air now, but I had to work on that problem from a lot of angles and the last puzzle was to overcome the problem with conductors 'hanging arms'.

There are lots of good things in this thread. The only thing that is NOT good is to constantly interrupt a student and tell him/her the attacks are bad. The student needs to understand the attacks must be clean but a good teacher should never interrupt a student repeatable like that. The bad attack problem must be addressed much smarter.

/Tom

[GabrielRice]

Absolutely, Tom.

I can also hold my air and be ready for a cue with no prep. It happens often in the ballet pit. But I tell my students that I can do that because I've spent years cultivating the good habit of simple in and out. SET, BREATHE, PLAY.

One of the things I do in my teaching is make my students put the horn down after a bad start. I don't allow double starts, because that's a terrible habit to reinforce. Whenever the tongue block or a poorly prepared entrance happens in a lesson, they have to put their instrument down, re-focus, then bring it up again and SET, BREATHE, PLAY. In rhythm.

I tell them they need to do the same thing in the practice room, and hopefully they do it.

Of course, there are some exceptions to that, when I don't want to break a student's flow to work out the problem for themself. But I do think it's vital to practice the preparation for the first note, as Doug talks about above, and keep reinforcing the best, most consistent way to do that.

[RustBeltBass]

Another word of caution about Caruso exercises: every detail of HOW to do them is important, and it's essential to have a clear idea of what you're doing. Watch the videos by Julie Landsman; note that she always subdivides 16th notes before the first note of an exercise. That's absolutely essential.

Thank you for pointing that out. I won the majority of my auditions dealing with this issue and used several tactics to get over it, some having been mentioned here. The Caruso method IS a great tool, if done right and Julie is a master of this method. These videos are truly great. But watch out that you follow it to the detail 100%.

[RustBeltBass]

There has been plenty of very good advice here on this matter.

One aspect that is very important to keep in mind (no pun intended) is the mental one. I am saying this as someone who dealt with this for a while and still was able to win professional auditions despite it. It is possible to overcome it.

There is a range of reasons on how the hesitation developed started to interfere with your attacks. In order to get it out you need a game plan, figure out which of the methods that are mentioned here work for you (ideally with professional guidance).

A word of warning though.

It is however important that you ONLY play into the instrument when you are feeling “good” meaning confident that the note will start. You need to rewire yourself and build confidence into your approach to the instrument. If you start playing and it works, great, keep working on it. If the note does not speak or does not speak the way you’d like it to, that is ok. But don’t try again right away, put the horn away, relax a bit and get into the mindset of trying again fresh. That might mean there will be practice sessions where you don’t play a whole lot of notes. But this was the way to get over it for me.


The worst you can do is repeat unsuccessful attempts often in a very short time. This accomplishes only one thing: you “learn” to get used to and perfect the fail. And therefore the problem becomes more intense and harder to overcome.

[imsevimse]

The worst you can do is repeat unsuccessful attempts often in a very short time. This accomplishes only one thing: you “learn” to get used to and perfect the fail. And therefore the problem becomes more intense and harder to overcome.

Exactly!!!

/Tom

[Doug Elliott]

My opinion is that all of that starts from "unsuccessful attempts" due to physical issues, and repeated unsuccessful attempts lead to a phobia or fear of failure. Then you lock up and can't start at all. Now it's a mental problem, but it started as a still-unresolved physical problem.

Yes you need to get over the mental part but for long term success you have to resolve the physical problem that caused it.

[imsevimse]

My opinion is that all of that starts from "unsuccessful attempts" due to physical issues, and repeated unsuccessful attempts lead to a phobia or fear of failure. Then you lock up and can't start at all. Now it's a mental problem, but it started as a still-unresolved physical problem.

Yes you need to get over the mental part but for long term success you have to resolve the physical problem that caused it.

This is also true!

To be a good brass teacher is to be a good psychologist with deep insights of physiology and brass playing methods as well as to be a good brass player and experienced musician. Some teachers have neither, some are good players, some have studied methods and knows things theoretically but can not do it themselves, Some are great personalities who can make students play their best.

It's rare to find one teacher who has it all.

To have a student evolve a phobia like this is very bad. It must be addressed smart when it happens.

I think a lot of good advice exists in this thread.

This phobia seams to be quite common. I've heard of many players besides me who at some time in their carrer developed this.

It was long since I had it now but I still remember all other problems that followed with lack of confidence and how difficult it was to overcome. It completely destroyed all my playing at the time. I can not say I had the problem already. It was something I developed in lessons. It had a lot to do with stress and lack of confidence in the first place.

The teacher I had was a great trombone player and was one of the best classical trombone players in the capital but did not know much about technical problems. HIS playing is what I remember the most and appreciate. He was a good role model in that aspect.

/Tom

[RustBeltBass]

My opinion is that all of that starts from "unsuccessful attempts" due to physical issues, and repeated unsuccessful attempts lead to a phobia or fear of failure. Then you lock up and can't start at all. Now it's a mental problem, but it started as a still-unresolved physical problem.

Yes you need to get over the mental part but for long term success you have to resolve the physical problem that caused it.

I like the “whisper soft note” exercise you described a few posts above.


I would agree that physical issues are what lead a good portion of players into this problem. I have no way of proving it, but from my own experience and from colleagues I have seen suffer from this, I came to the conclusion that too much focus on the inhalation part and not enough focus on the BLOWING aspect can contribute greatly to this.


However, I also think that the fact that “healthy” players from ALL sorts of educational backgrounds suffer from this and that this issue can occur so suddenly, point a bit towards the mental aspect being the root of this for many. I also highly believe that stress plays a major role in this.

[Doubler]

What an amazing discussion! This is one of the best threads I have ever read. All contributors are helpful and informative, introducing and emphasizing comprehensive, useful information.

[GabrielRice]

I would agree that physical issues are what lead a good portion of players into this problem. I have no way of proving it, but from my own experience and from colleagues I have seen suffer from this, I came to the conclusion that too much focus on the inhalation part and not enough focus on the BLOWING aspect can contribute greatly to this.

I would say yes and no...mostly no, actually.

Too much of the focus of the inhalation instruction we receive is simply "MORE AIR!" Inhale more! Drop your jaw! Take in as much air as you can! I have had a conversation with Jan Kagarice, who has studied and worked with focal dystonia and related problems for years, in which she told me that MRI studies show that that kind of inhale lights up the brain in the same place as the fight or flight mechanism. It's simulating panic. I have often heard the instruction to "breathe like you're surprised." I think that's a bad and dangerous idea.

On the other hand, I have seen Doug work with my students and others, and he focuses a lot more on the inhalation than the exhalation. But it's much more specific about how to set up before the inhalation and then how to inhale while keeping that setup intact, so that the embouchure is actually ready to make sound when the exhale starts. Exactly none of the instruction is about how to get more air more quickly; it's all about how to get the needed air while keeping the embouchure ready to do its part of the job.


And then I also have problems with the word BLOW when applied to playing a brass instrument. For years I struggled with no-speaks, and they would often get worse at loud dynamics. I thought my horn or mouthpiece was backing up on me, but in reality I was blowing PAST the vibration, cutting it off in the effort to force it to happen.

The function of the air we expel is to feed energy to the vibration of the air column. It is absolutely not to travel through the instrument and whoosh out the other side.

Different people benefit from different visualizations related to that, and for some the idea of blowing can work...but I much prefer the visualization of CONTACT, like a bow on a string. A bow on a string needs to be doing two things in order to get the string vibrating: it needs to be moving, and it needs to be in contact with the string, at least briefly.

However, I also think that the fact that “healthy” players from ALL sorts of educational backgrounds suffer from this and that this issue can occur so suddenly, point a bit towards the mental aspect being the root of this for many. I also highly believe that stress plays a major role in this.

Actually, in my experience, players in the Jazz and related worlds suffer from this problem much less often than "classical" players. I think there are several reasons for this, but I think the most important one is rhythm. When you play music that is based 99% of the time on a clear, steady pulse, it's much easier to know when you're supposed to play and time your preparation for it accordingly.

"Classical" players on the other hand - and I'm one of them - spend a lot of time without being able to rely on a steady pulse. We have to watch a conductor and rely on visual cues for rubato, stretched or delayed entrances, etc. This can wreak havoc on our internal timing for initial articulations. Opera pits are particularly bad for this. Some kinds of musicals can also be very difficult for this reason.

I have a friend who had to give up on his performing career after spending a few years playing opera at the Met. He was an extra, not contracted, so yes, the stress level was high, and he had just started a family so he didn't have the kind of time he was used to for maintaining his own playing. All of it combined gave him such a crippling case of hesitation that he gave it up and moved out of New York. Now he's trying to put it back together, and the video I posted was made initially for him.

[RustBeltBass]

On the other hand, I have seen Doug work with my students and others, and he focuses a lot more on the inhalation than the exhalation. But it's much more specific about how to set up before the inhalation and then how to inhale while keeping that setup intact, so that the embouchure is actually ready to make sound when the exhale starts. Exactly none of the instruction is about how to get more air more quickly; it's all about how to get the needed air while keeping the embouchure ready to do its part of the job.


And then I also have problems with the word BLOW when applied to playing a brass instrument. For years I struggled with no-speaks, and they would often get worse at loud dynamics. I thought my horn or mouthpiece was backing up on me, but in reality I was blowing PAST the vibration, cutting it off in the effort to force it to happen.


Actually, in my experience, players in the Jazz and related worlds suffer from this problem much less often than "classical" players. I think there are several reasons for this, but I think the most important one is rhythm. When you play music that is based 99% of the time on a clear, steady pulse, it's much easier to know when you're supposed to play and time your preparation for it accordingly.

"Classical" players on the other hand - and I'm one of them - spend a lot of time without being able to rely on a steady pulse. We have to watch a conductor and rely on visual cues for rubato, stretched or delayed entrances, etc. This can wreak havoc on our internal timing for initial articulations. Opera pits are particularly bad for this. Some kinds of musicals can also be very difficult for this reason.

Some interesting points, Gabe, thanks for sharing. I find it interesting you mentioned “no speak“ problems In loud dynamics. I would love to understand more about why you think they are getting worse in LOUD dynamics. I have yet to see this with a student or friend/colleague. Could you elaborate more on that ?
You already did, but it was difficult understanding what you meant. Living in America for a few years now , I consider myself fluent in English, but it is not my native language, so this is on me.

Good point about the jazz players being probably less likely to be affected by this. It is impossible to know as I don’t think there are any stats on this, and probably never will given that this kind of issue for many years was something people would not talk about. A few weeks ago, Vanessa Fralick gave a VERY inspirational warm up class online in which she shared some of her history and thoughts on this. She emphasized how important it is for recovery from this to not consider it a “taboo” thing and to not keep it to oneself. Which is what I did when it affected me 7 years ago. I was lucky to have had great tutelage/care on this that really helped me but in retrospect I feel I could have resolved it much quicker had I shared this with others rather than keeping it to myself as much as possible. Especially when I had seen how devastating the mental effects of that can be when a fellow trombonist I went to school with eventually had to switch careers.
Here is the link to Vanessa’s class by the way. It was recorded by Jason Sulliman who is the driving force in organizing this and makes it available to the public.

https://www.jasonsulliman.com/trombonehang


Back to the Jazz aspect. It makes sense what you write about the steady pulse. I would also imagine that the creative, free element of improvisation results in a healthier overall mental approach to the instrument.
But just to be clear(er): When I wrote about players of all sorts of “educational backgrounds” being affected by this, it was schools of thought in classical trombone education, I was referring to. I should have made that clearer.


Before I moved to the US, I spent three years playing in full time orchestra pits in Germany. Two of them as a fellowship holder with one of the leading orchestras of the world and then a one year position in a smaller full time Opera and Symphony Orchestra. I cherish the memories and experiences from those years a lot, especially since most of my playing now happens ON stage. However, the visual cues we rely on, which you describe so well, are amongst some of the more stressful aspects of playing, I agree that these situations contribute to messing up the internal timing and the “fear” of starting.


Happy to see this topic being discussed and dare I say, the overall level of conversation on this forum developing nicely.

[GabrielRice]

I'm not quite sure how to answer your question, but I'll try. When I was in college I had some trouble with soft response, as many young players do. In graduate school I basically solved that by making my embouchure more efficient (though by no means as efficient as I needed), but a few years later when I was out working as a professional, I started to have problems sometimes when playing at loud dynamics. Notes just wouldn't come out, like they were blocked.

Maybe I was too tight, but I think I also was trying to blow too hard and too fast, trying to blow through the sound rather than support or feed the sound with my air.

[Burgerbob]

I definitely had Gabe's issue for a long time, especially on isolated shorter notes in the staff.

[imsevimse]

I'm not quite sure how to answer your question, but I'll try. When I was in college I had some trouble with soft response, as many young players do. In graduate school I basically solved that by making my embouchure more efficient (though by no means as efficient as I needed), but a few years later when I was out working as a professional, I started to have problems sometimes when playing at loud dynamics. Notes just wouldn't come out, like they were blocked.

Maybe I was too tight, but I think I also was trying to blow too hard and too fast, trying to blow through the sound rather than support or feed the sound with my air.

I definitely had Gabe's issue for a long time, especially on isolated shorter notes in the staff.

This is also an interesting problem.

To me that occurs in the mornings. It can happen if I start my practice very early, maybe 6-8 PM. My lips do not want to vibrate much at that time. This happens only within and below the staff and at any dynamics. Above the staff is never a problem. When it happens the lips just do not produce any vibrations and the only sound that passes is from the air.

"I need to warm up" is the thought that comes into my mind because that eventually makes it disappear.

This problem is not related to the lock-by-the-throat or lock-by-the-tongue problem we have discussed. It has not to do with timing and rythm and is not a mental block problem. Not to me. I often try to solve it by breath attacks or I just put the horn in the case and eat something because I know it will go away with food. Food or coffee is what's faster for me.

If this is a common problem that students have with their playing I think it deserves it's own thread.

I do remember I did have problems to make my lips vibrate before lunch when I was younger in high-school. I asked to have the trombone lessons after lunch because my lips did not vibrate if I had not eaten. It was not many of my friends who wanted to start their lessons at eight in the mornings. I remember we discussed this.

I guess others might have this as a more permanent problem. In that case it destroys playing. Create a new thread if that case.

/Tom

[FOSSIL]

Tom, our lips are stiff in the morning after a nights sleep.... gentle or low vibration is harder then... eating hot food or drinking a hot drink helps loosen them....so does talking... reasons why it is easier to play later in the day. You warm up partly to deal with this, though there are other reasons to warm up.
Nothing to do with note starts as in this thread.

Chris

[GabrielRice]

And the only reason I brought up loud dynamic no-speaks was in reference to the idea of BLOWING as paramount. I don't believe that problem I worked through is the same at all as the hesitation problem.

[RustBeltBass]

And the only reason I brought up loud dynamic no-speaks was in reference to the idea of BLOWING as paramount. I don't believe that problem I worked through is the same at all as the hesitation problem.

We went a bit off-topic there and I’m willing to take the blame for it as I requested you elaborating on your playing problem, I apologize.

But it would be worth another discussion here at some point, maybe.

Back to topic !

[GabrielRice]

No worries as far as I'm concerned...I like when conversations go wherever they need to.

[heldenbone]

This has thus far been a most illuminating thread. To the original poster's concern, let me volunteer that this (start hesitation) is an issue that has bothered me from time to time. Working through it for me involved making my warm-up begin with the Caruso "6-Notes" articulated as "hoo, doo, TOO" to re-establish the needed muscle memory for all three note start methods. Following, slow long tones played as "quarter,quarter,quarter,quarter,whole" begun by "set,inhale,exhale" with attention to observing a relaxed internal openness. I say "observing," rather than "maintaining," because the intent here is to cultivate a muscle memory that can (eventually) supersede one that has been in place for a significant length of time. Quietly observing without judgement good or bad is key. Maintaining, or struggling to maintain, will only engender frustration. Some days, more "hoo,doo,TOO" will be in order before your mind is prepared to go on.

The new muscle memory must be continually refreshed day-to-day, especially as it involves *not* doing something part of the pre-existing muscle memory script. Brain plasticity is indeed a thing, but it takes time, particularly if the brain in question has more than a few years invested in that existing script.

Richard