Articulation

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TokenBone
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Articulation

Post by TokenBone »

I am sure there have been various threads about this but I failed to find any so here we go. How common is it to articulate through the teeth for low register notes? I found that is the only way I can get a clear attack down low, I was always taught to never do that so I guess I am just curious. Going higher I articulate higher, which to my knowledge is fairly common but haven't heard much of the inverse.
GabrielRice
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Re: Articulation

Post by GabrielRice »

It's very common.
HornboneandVocals
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Re: Articulation

Post by HornboneandVocals »

I had a teacher say that some trombonists articulate with their tongue hitting their lips for low pedal tones, but that it can be muddy and hard to be clean and consistent. He then recommended I do everything in my power to keep my articulations on the roof of my mouth/gums. He then went on to say he suspects Denson Paul Pollard to articulate this way in his trigger pedal and double pedal range and it sounds amazing.

Do what works for you.
Olofson
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Re: Articulation

Post by Olofson »

As said above, very common, it works for many good basstrombonists.
baileyman
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Re: Articulation

Post by baileyman »

I used to think it was necessary, but that's changing. I think I am getting better at having a controlled relaxed set that more easily resonates with low pitches. That together with an appropriate mouth volume seems to get the notes to speak more easily. Then the need for articulation declines. The chop tension and mouth volume seem more in-tune with the intended pitch. Without that, yeah, tongue on lips.
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Savio
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Re: Articulation

Post by Savio »

I think I do it through the teeth for pedals. But I'm not sure exactly what I do. Don't even think God knows. :biggrin: I think I use it gentle if playing fast notes down there. We have to experiment and see what works. Depends on the music character, long or short notes, ff or pp? We are all different so it depends. Music character can also make you do the correct way for your physics without you even think about what you do.....

Leif
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harrisonreed
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Re: Articulation

Post by harrisonreed »

Savio wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 1:56 pm
Leif
Welcome back, Leif!
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Savio
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Re: Articulation

Post by Savio »

harrisonreed wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 1:59 pm
Savio wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 1:56 pm
Leif
Welcome back, Leif!
Thanks a lot!!
AndrewMeronek
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Re: Articulation

Post by AndrewMeronek »

I definitely do articulate through my teeth for very low notes. And I can change it if I really find a need to move my tongue back. But I find that it's most consistent if I just do it that way, especially in the context of connecting my low range to the rest of the instrument.
“All musicians are subconsciously mathematicians.”

- Thelonious Monk
chouston3
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Re: Articulation

Post by chouston3 »

I articulate through my teeth for low range notes but I move my tongue back as I go higher. I have a bad habit of keeping the articulations through my teeth for all registers but it sounds better if I just do it in the low range.
Kbiggs
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Re: Articulation

Post by Kbiggs »

Savio wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 2:17 pm
harrisonreed wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 1:59 pm

Welcome back, Leif!
Thanks a lot!!
Indeed! Welcome back!
Kenneth Biggs
I have known a great many troubles, but most of them have never happened.
—Mark Twain (attributed)
Kbiggs
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Re: Articulation

Post by Kbiggs »

Over time, my tongue syllable for valve notes and pedals has changed. I used to tongue between the teeth almost all the time in those registers. I made a choice a few years ago to change it. I wanted a more consistent sound and response/feel from register to register.

Yes, I occasionally do tongue between the teeth still—old habits are hard to replace. Tonguing between the teeth helps the note start more quickly. A lot of horn players use that method, especially low horn, and when playing softly. For me, though, it adds a millisecond of instability once the tongue releases the air stream. My guess is that it somehow distorts the lips… but that’s just a guess.

What has helped the most is Doug’s Set-Breathe-Play, along with consciously placing the tip of my tongue in position during the inhale. In the valve and pedal register, the tip of my tongue is usually right at my front teeth, or perhaps just slightly above them. I often use a Dah, Nah or Lah syllable for the tongue when playing in these registers, especially when playing softly.

The challenge here, compared to tonguing between the teeth, is that the air stream must flow and turn around quickly from inhale to exhale: no pause, no breaking, no holding. Otherwise the millisecond between tongue release and start of note will also cause instability and air-balls.
Kenneth Biggs
I have known a great many troubles, but most of them have never happened.
—Mark Twain (attributed)
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jacobgarchik
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Re: Articulation

Post by jacobgarchik »

David Taylor taught that, for G at the bottom of the staff and below, the tongue is between the teeth with the tip of the tongue resting on the top lip. for Ab and above, tongue is on the back of the top teeth. Most of his students do this, myself included. He has a specific set of exercises to get used to the shift.
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