Replace Rotor on a Vintage Conn 88H?

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:26 am

Okay, my Conn 88H has pretty much been identified as a late 80's - early 90's Conn 88H, post Abilene. I love the horn. It has a wonderfully warm sound and I can play softer on it than I can on any other of my horns.

But here's the problem. It's that dang rotor linkage. There is no way I can hold that horn without my own thumb getting in the way of the metal linkage. I asked my local repair shop if they can swap it out for a more modern rotor and they can't. Is that even done? Any thoughts on what I might do? Anyplace I can send it for installation of, say a Thayer?

Has anyone else come up with a work-around? Maybe installing some type of guard to keep my thumb shoved out of the way?

Sure, I could sell it and buy a King 4B or a 5B. But I like the sound on that Conn 88H.

Here's a couple pics:

Thanks for any info or help!

...Geezer

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:35 am

If you don't like the linkage ... that has little to do with the rotor. Get a new kind of linkage. It might involve moving the saddle.

I say that cuz the rotor is a big part of why a horn blows the way it does.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:37 am

No need to replace the whole rotor, although its not too difficult an operation for an experienced tech. Lots of threads here on replacing with Rotaxes and other after market rotors. That was one of the big things Greenhoe did was adding their rotor to existing instruments, of which the Conn 88 was one of the most popular (the other horn they did a lot of conversions on was the Bach 42). So you aren't in uncharted territory by any means.

Check out this google search for more reading on converting to a miniball or other type of linkage before worrying about replacing the rotor!

You might have to ship your instrument away to someone who is more confident about doing it though.

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:41 am

If you must replace the rotor, I'd ship to M&W or have the Brassark do a conversion.

ttf_daveyboy37 · Post by **ttf_daveyboy37** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:46 am

Replacing the linkage should not be an issue for most techs. Question is what to replace it with. Probably seeing you hold the instrument would help the tech choose which linkage would be best for avoiding thumb interference.

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:03 am

Thanks guys. Is there someone in the Baltimore, MD area noted for this kind of mod; either linkage or rotor replacement? I don't want to try a mod myself. I'm pretty handy, but this is out of my element and a man must know his limitations. lol

...Geezer

ttf_greenbean · Post by **ttf_greenbean** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:11 am

Todd Clontz at Rosso Music is rumored to have done close to a million conversions...

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:18 am

That name sounds familiar! Their FB page says they are closed now, so maybe they are on vacation.

...Geezer

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:37 am

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Jun 19, 2017, 11:03AMThanks guys. Is there someone in the Baltimore, MD area noted for this kind of mod; either linkage or rotor replacement?

...Geezer

Albert Houde w/ Baltimore Brass did a similar conversion for me about four years ago. I'm not sure if he still works for them or not but they should have someone there who can take care of it.

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:56 am

Baltimore Brass. I've heard good things about them.

Thanks!

...Geezer

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:12 pm

FWIW , I had CIOMIT in Colorado convert my string linkage on my alto to a miniball. It cost about $270 (which also includes the price of them shortening the main tuning slide, so the conversion might have been closer to $180), but it didn't move the saddle or change the lever arm in any way, which you might have to do, since you probably will want the lever/arm on the other side of your hand (ie, Edwards style).

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:47 pm

I appreciate the responses I saw. I took names.

I also experimented this evening. Turns out if I remove my index finger from the mouthpiece where it rests in a conventional grip, and let it drop down with all my other fingers against the braces AND let the goose-neck rest just a bit on my shoulder, it all tends to shove the heel of my thumb away enough to barely let the trigger linkage clear. Maybe not totally ideal, but I think it will be a satisfactory work-around for now. It never occurred to me to try that kind of a grip on this horn before, but apparently that is what it takes.

It's a pretty good horn. However, if I take it in for a rotor replacement, I'll probably go ahead and let them roll out dents, strip it down and relacquer it. That's too much money. For all of that, I may as well by a large-bore horn that has a more suitable trigger for me.

...Geezer

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:02 pm

Linkage would definition rely be cheaper. Rolling dents pretty cheap too. Probably wouldn't be worth it but linkage and dent rolling probably are. Another option for comfort would be the various ergonomic devices. The instrument innovation one might work. You may also like the neotech. It's also a lot cheaper. Finally, installing a ring under the mouthpiece receiver for your index finger was popular on horns that have that configuration. I really like the index finger ring on my duo Gravis.

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:25 pm

Quote from: Matt K on Jun 19, 2017, 06:02PMLinkage would definition rely be cheaper. Rolling dents pretty cheap too. Probably wouldn't be worth it but linkage and dent rolling probably are. Another option for comfort would be the various ergonomic devices. The instrument innovation one might work. You may also like the neotech. It's also a lot cheaper. Finally, installing a ring under the mouthpiece receiver for your index finger was popular on horns that have that configuration. I really like the index finger ring on my duo Gravis.

Thanks. Of all the after-market add-on devices I have seen, I don't like the look of any of them. Just not my style.

However, it may be worth an exploratory trip down to Baltimore to consult with a tech; if I can confine the work to only what the horn actually needs to function better. I see the heavier King horns have that ring.

...Geezer

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:32 pm

Don't worry about dents as long as they're just on the bell. Those have no effect.

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Jun 19, 2017, 07:32PMDon't worry about dents as long as they're just on the bell. Those have no effect.

True, as far as sound is concerned. There are some on the tuning slide that should get pushed out. The main slide could probably tolerate a re-alignment as well.

It's kinda a fun horn to play. I am intrigued with the trigger low notes as well as the soft mellowness of the sound of the horn when I hold the dynamic down and it's easy to do that on this horn, although I can get strident with it at will if needed. The high range is pretty wide open. I can play just about as high on it as I can on anything, even with a larger mouthpiece. I see it useful to me for my own entertainment playing light jazz-type music with a minimal accompaniment - as in a piano bar, where the soft dynamic and gentleness of the tone would be paramount and also where the mellowness and legato capabilities of the horn would count as well. Maybe it's just that large-bore horns are inherently easier on which to play mellow & legato. I don't know, but I kinda dig this horn. It's a different concept for me, so I'm inclined to give it a little work-over for increased functionality. I just have to decide what work would give me the biggest bang for the buck.

...Geezer

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:33 am

I took my 88H in to the local repair shop. On-the-spot, the tech made an adjustment to the linkage string and improved things about 90% for me with a conventional grip. Now I don't need to pursue a rotor and/or linkage replacement. So I went ahead and dropped the horn off to have all dents pushed and/or rolled out, a new cork for the spit valve, a new bumper on the end of the slide and a complete chemical flush - including the rotor. For some pocket money, it will be well worth it to freshen the horn up. Maybe next year I'll take the slide in for a strip-down and refinishing. The bell section doesn't need it and I'm glad b/c THAT would be costly.

Thanks to all for the ideas, etc!

...Geezer

ttf_daveyboy37 · Post by **ttf_daveyboy37** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:13 am

For the slide, honestly only the grip portion is really important. Maybe they can just re-spray that.

Glad that it was able to be fixed relatively easily. Hopefully the horn brings you enjoyment for decades to come!

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:25 am

Thanks, man.

Before I took the horn to the "hospital", I polished up the bell section with some Scratch Out. Now, I know that removes finish, but in this case it took off a micro-layer of the old, oxidized finish and brought the shine up on a new layer of finish very nicely.

If I have anything done to the slide, it will probably be a total strip-down and refinish. That same place sent my King 2B out a year ago for refinishing and it now looks fabulous. If I could have held the old horn up side-by-side with the refinished horn, you would never know they were the same horn. And taking that thick, orange-ish layer of ancient lacquer off to replace with a sprayed baked-on lacquer made the horn sound like a million bucks. So I have every reason to believe it could be a good thing for the 88H slide in a year or so. That said, you might think it may cause a cosmetic mis-match. Truth is, that slide doesn't cosmetically look like a perfectly matched set to the bell anyway. I think a lot of slides have a different appearance from their horn counterparts, for some odd reason. Anyway, I'll give myself till next summer to think it over before committing. Meanwhile, I'll know I gave new life to an old horn by doing what I'm doing.

...Geezer

ttf_daveyboy37 · Post by **ttf_daveyboy37** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:10 pm

Sounds like your horn was made during the orange lacquer days. It is very possible that they were not the same color to begin with. I don't see how they ever thought that orange color looked good.

ttf_tbathras · Post by **ttf_tbathras** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:34 pm

Quote from: daveyboy37 on Yesterday at 05:10 PMI don't see how they ever thought that orange color looked good.

Perhaps the folks that made that decision were the same people that thought mullets were cool.

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:06 pm

Was that really the color? I thought it turned that color due to oxidation and aging. Well, tastes change.

...Geezer

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:06 pm

Was that really the color? I thought it turned that color due to oxidation and aging. Well, tastes change.

...Geezer