Buying a new trombone soon, what’s the right move?

[PilotCap]

Hey guys, first post on here that I imagine is going to warrant a LOT of different answers, so I’ll try my best to specify my situation.

So I’m going into my Junior year of high school and at this point have been playing the trombone for 5 years. You name a school band, and I’ve played in it: Marching, Concert, pep band, pit orchestra, holiday groups, jazz band, and this year will be playing in a Brass quintet/brass band. I should add that I am in my schools wind ensemble, and this year will be doing the honors program as well. Throughout these groups I have been switching between three horns. A Yamaha student horn (marching band and pep band; due to uniformity), a school loaned f-attachment tenor (the one being replaced), and a Bach Bass Trombone (jazz band primarily, but concert band and pit orchestra too). Because of the bass trombone I have built up big lungs, so playing loud is no problem at all.

My trombone teacher, who is retired military band, and a professional musician, currently plays on an Edwards (in addition to probably 3-4 other horns) and let me try it out, and he said I sounded great on it. One of my favorite parts about the horn was the trigger. I’ve played a lot of horns where I don’t like the feel of the trigger, but this one felt very comfortable. Another horn I tried out and liked was a Courtois, due to the fact that it felt similar to my Bach Bass.

The plan is for this new horn to take me to college and hopefully further. As of this moment I do not plan to major in music, as it is passion #2, not #1, however I will definitely be playing in college, and afterward as well - as a hobby (hopefully in groups too, depending on where my future job takes me).

So this is where we end up. Is Edwards the right move? It’s a pricey one, but the horn will be played for the next 6+ years, and the lifetime warranty is quite attractive, but it is quite an expensive move, so help me out.

[BGuttman]

If you can easily afford the Edwards, then OK. I think you should not go into hock for a good trombone at this point. There's plenty of time to upgrade once you are established and don't need the money for something else.

The Courtois could be a great alternative. Or a Yamaha.

Actually, I like used instruments because you will get a lot more horn for your dollar. There are lots of great used instruments out there.

Did your teacher let you try other horns? Or are the rest of his stable not in line with what you want?

I'm sure you will get swamped with suggestions here. Good luck sorting through them.

[hyperbolica]

Aw, geez. Why don't we just list all the shiny new trombones?

A used Bach 36 is a pro instrument that will do everything you need, especially since you don't know what you need. Like the song says, if you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there. Everybody thinks a new instrument will be trouble free, but usually brand new horns require a break in and adjustment period. Used horns are often broken in for you, and are a better bet financially. Plus, it's easier to relax when playing something that isn't brand spanking new. Buy a used horn. Get it serviced, and play it.

[Dennis]

Aw, geez. Why don't we just list all the shiny new trombones?

A used Bach 36 is a pro instrument that will do everything you need, especially since you don't know what you need.

This.

Trombones are a lot like cars, in that there is a pretty serious hit in value as soon as you take delivery. (The exception to that might be something like an M&W or Stephens with low supply and long lead times. Even that might depend on how you customized the standard build.

[LeTromboniste]

Hey guys, first post on here that I imagine is going to warrant a LOT of different answers, so I’ll try my best to specify my situation.

So I’m going into my Junior year of high school and at this point have been playing the trombone for 5 years. You name a school band, and I’ve played in it: Marching, Concert, pep band, pit orchestra, holiday groups, jazz band, and this year will be playing in a Brass quintet/brass band. I should add that I am in my schools wind ensemble, and this year will be doing the honors program as well. Throughout these groups I have been switching between three horns. A Yamaha student horn (marching band and pep band; due to uniformity), a school loaned f-attachment tenor (the one being replaced), and a Bach Bass Trombone (jazz band primarily, but concert band and pit orchestra too). Because of the bass trombone I have built up big lungs, so playing loud is no problem at all.

My trombone teacher, who is retired military band, and a professional musician, currently plays on an Edwards (in addition to probably 3-4 other horns) and let me try it out, and he said I sounded great on it. One of my favorite parts about the horn was the trigger. I’ve played a lot of horns where I don’t like the feel of the trigger, but this one felt very comfortable. Another horn I tried out and liked was a Courtois, due to the fact that it felt similar to my Bach Bass.

The plan is for this new horn to take me to college and hopefully further. As of this moment I do not plan to major in music, as it is passion #2, not #1, however I will definitely be playing in college, and afterward as well - as a hobby (hopefully in groups too, depending on where my future job takes me).

So this is where we end up. Is Edwards the right move? It’s a pricey one, but the horn will be played for the next 6+ years, and the lifetime warranty is quite attractive, but it is quite an expensive move, so help me out.

Most people's needs and focus evolve a lot in the learning years after high school, so the chances that your new horn will be played by you for 6+ years are actually not super high. Especially if it's a super specific customized instrument and not something middle-of-the-road. At your age, even if you're a super good trombone players, chances are that you don't know enough about your own playing to know what you need and why, let alone have tried enough instruments to know what's out there and what works for you or not. I had several colleagues who bought fancy Shires and Edwards instruments as students, and I can't think of a single one who still plays that horn, they all eventually sold them (at a big loss) and moved to something else.

My advice would be to get a very good second-hand instrument at a reasonable price that will leave you some money for other things. If you're planning to have a career outside of music, you'll more likely have some spare cash later on to buy your dream horn if you so wish, once you have the tools to know what that dream horn is and why.

[OneTon]

King 3BF+ and Bach 36 get recommended a lot. They are pro level horns and cover well most things such as big band, brass quartet, brass quintet, brass band, and orchestra. In college I had a Conn 88H and a Holton Super Collegiate. We got to play Brahm's 4th and Beethoven's 6th, and I had a great time. A 3BF+ or 36 would have worked for either, as well. The Holton did a great job on big band 1st and 2nd, marching, and pep band. That Holton was damage tolerant. King 2B and 3B trombones are around. They both have nickel slides that are not light weight but are somewhat damage tolerant. They won't hold anyone back. The King 3BF will probably satisfy the same itch.

What doesn't work well? The first two times that Brand X big band came to town, bringing leads and hiring the rest of each section, a local premier lead player and a professor from the local university played lead and bass. The lead player sold his large bore after college. He played all jazz and music shows on a 2B. He occasionally said that he ought to get another large bore, but it never happened. He always had a large bore or bass available through his work. The professor was a tenor player. He had always played as many or bass gigs as tenor. He borrowed a bass. Those gigs went great.

The last time Band X came to town, both the previous players had retired. The union scale bass player plays everything on a Conn 88H with the original Remington mouthpiece. He is a great player, on tenor. He covered the notes on the bass part, but drew some less than endearing looks from the band leader, and I doubt if he gets hired for bass on that gig again. I personally don't think most people sound good playing big band lead on large bore trombones, Steve Turre being a well known exception. If you have chops like Steve Turre, go pro.

If money is no object, buy an Edwards or whatever floats your boat, and something smaller for commercial work, or one 0.522-0.525 bore horn with f-attachment. Otherwise, good used horns are around from Dillons or Brass Exchange, and other places. My mentor recommended horns less than 0.490 for big band lead. His advice was correct for me. I have nothing against using a large bore in big band bass. Our bass player uses a B88 with some kind of bass trombone mouthpiece and sounds fine. Putting something as big as a bass trombone mouthpiece in a small or medium bore horn isn't going to happen unless you have a special leadpipe. Kuhn & Hoyer makes a 0.508 bore with f-attachmenty, and a 0.522 bore with f-attachment, with options on outer slide materials. They are very good horns and well made.

[mazman]

3BF for everything you do except marching. Practice will do more for you than any custom shop trombone at this point.

[harrisonreed]

3BF for everything you do except marching. Practice will do more for you than any custom shop trombone at this point.

I would march a 3BF.

[Burgerbob]

I do march a 3B/F.

[JohnL]

I do march a 3B/F.

Yes, but you don't slam the neckpipe against your shoulder every time you do a "horns up". That seems to be SOP for high school bands, at least around here. Unless you're playing a part where you need a valve, best to use a straight tenor for marching.

[PilotCap]

If you can easily afford the Edwards, then OK. I think you should not go into hock for a good trombone at this point. There's plenty of time to upgrade once you are established and don't need the money for something else.

The Courtois could be a great alternative. Or a Yamaha.

Actually, I like used instruments because you will get a lot more horn for your dollar. There are lots of great used instruments out there.

Did your teacher let you try other horns? Or are the rest of his stable not in line with what you want?

I'm sure you will get swamped with suggestions here. Good luck sorting through them.

Money is a bit tight, that’s the main reason I’m not immediately jumping at an Edwards, the problem is I’m not too familiar with where I can find a selection of good used horns (I bought my student horn used from a music shop where that was the only trombone available) so if you can help me out in that regard that would be great

[harrisonreed]

Dillons Music on the East Coast, Schmidt Music, Brass Exchange, Brass Ark on the West Coast. I'm sure there are more places, too but places with a lot of used stock are kind of rare. Where are you located?

[Posaunus]

... the problem is I’m not too familiar with where I can find a selection of good used horns (I bought my student horn used from a music shop where that was the only trombone available) so if you can help me out in that regard that would be great

You've received some pretty good suggestions. Trying trombones "live" of course depends on where you live and how far you are willing to travel.

I thoroughly endorse purchasing a used professional-level trombone for your needs - you can get fine instruments for much less than buying new. Another good option (which I've used myself with great success) is to buy a trombone from a TromboneChat member. Check the "Classified" section of this site. We're a pretty honest bunch and can generally be trusted to give a good value.

[jpwell]

This has worked 4x for me buying off the forum

[timbone]

If you like Courtois, I'd probably look for a used one- they are going to be consistent and relative on the used market. The linkages are great too. Bass or tenor?

[DCIsky]

Another vote for buying from the TromboneChat classifieds. Notably, Adam Rainey regularly has large tenors for sale; he's an incredible musician and vets his stock well, so you'd be getting a solid instrument.

Personally, if I had to quit full-time performance, sell off most of my horns and become a hobbyist, I would definitely keep my Eklhart Conn 88H. Nimble, efficient, beautiful in most musical settings (gets a bit bright in the back row perhaps!), and frankly just fun to play. Outside of the Texas diaspora, there are plenty of late-high school trombonists who do incredible stuff on Conn 88H's because of the ease of playing.

Regarding custom horns: unless you go to the factory and get custom-fitted, it's potentially a crapshoot to get the "perfect" horn, and the resale value is not great at all. For me personally, Edwards horns/parts especially have been tough to resell (and I've been through a LOT of Shires and Edwards components at this rate, trying to find the ideal setup).