Redness and pimples from playing trombone

[ChuckTbone]

Hey all,
So I’ve been playing everyday recently trying to keep up with practicing and I’ve noticed the red ring around my top lip has gotten worse. It’s also happening slightly on my bottom lip but due to my mouthpiece placement it’s mostly on the top. I have also gotten (pimples) or sore spots to be more exact that have been forming on my top lip and they do not seem to be going away. This makes it quite uncomfortable to play even for short periods of time. I have tried all the things recommended including washing my lips, cleaning my mouthpiece regularly, and not touching my lips while playing but none of this seems to work.

Another thing that I have noticed is that on the inside of my lips I can feel the indents or where the mouthpiece must be pressing up against my teeth. It’s important to note that I have been working on some solos that require mostly higher range and I do not believe that I use an insane amount of pressure whenever I play. However this can be quite frustrating and sometimes it feels as if my teeth are vibrating as I play and I get the red ring that permanently stays on my face. Any advice at all would be appreciated.


Thanks everyone,
Chuck

[hyperbolica]

There will be people who chime in who are experts in other people's problems. I can't give you that kind of help, all I know is what happened to me.

When I was a college age trombone performance major, I developed a permanent off-center ring around my top lip. I don't think this is unusual for brass players. I'm in my late 50s and it's still there. Doesn't hurt anything. Yes, you have to make sure you aren't using too much pressure, but other people will help you with that. The ring is normal.

The pimples are also normal, but there are some things that can help. Certainly the hygiene stuff is important. Another thing might be to just let your moustache grow out for a while. Thin moustaches won't effect your playing. Small hairs growing where you play can cause pimples. Try shaving either more or less.

Maybe more than that would be to change your diet. When I ate whatever was available, I got a lot of skin blemishes, and all sorts of other minor issues. But when I started being more careful about what I ate, those went away in the course of a couple of weeks. Eat real food. Nothing that comes out of a plastic package. Raw vegetables. Meat that looks like real meat, not super processed, less salt, less sugar, less chemicals you can't pronounce. You can eat less meat overall, also, and that helps. Less fast food. Less deli meat. I'm not a hippie, but trying to eat "cleaner" really helps. You don't have to be 100% successful, but the better you do, the better your body will treat you back.

For example, instead of a hotdog, eat a piece of chicken. Instead of deep fried chicken, eat rotisserie or baked. Instead of potato chips, eat celery or carrots. Instead of orange juice, eat an orange, and of course drink more water less sugary packaged stuff.

I used to get maybe 2 lip pimples a month until I made changes like this. Now I get one every 3 months or so. I still play between 1/2 hour and 2-3 hours a day. Cleaning up your act food wise has a lot of benefits. I still eat occasional fast food, and I'm not a crunchy proselytizer, but I was acting like I was indestructible, and had to make some changes. You don't have to be 100% perfect, just the more bad stuff you cut out, the better you'll be.

[Macbone1]

It still sounds to me like a bit too much pressure with your playing. The pimples may be from ingrown hairs so that's why they last a while. Maybe try a different shaving method, but make sure it is a close shave no matter what.

[AtomicClock]

Is the plating on your mouthpiece rim intact?

[tbdana]

I can't speak to ingrown lip hairs (thankfully!), but I'm about 100% certain that you're using too much pressure. You say...

Another thing that I have noticed is that on the inside of my lips I can feel the indents or where the mouthpiece must be pressing up against my teeth. It’s important to note that I have been working on some solos that require mostly higher range and I do not believe that I use an insane amount of pressure

...but "insane amount" or not, I can practically guarantee that you're using way too much pressure. You should never, ever be feeling your teeth vibrate. You should never feel indents on the inside of your lips. This is obvious evidence of using too much pressure. Pressure is a crutch we use to get those higher notes to speak when we're either not strong enough or not playing the upper register correctly. High notes come from increased air speed and a smaller oral cavity, not from jamming the mouthpiece into your chops so that they vibrate at higher frequencies. Back off the pressure! Absolutely zero harm can come from that, and I think you'll see substantial benefit over time.

I have a fairly decent high range and I use only enough pressure to create a seal on the mouthpiece, and no more. In my warmup I make it a point to back off to the point I get air leakage and can hear my own buzz, and then I move forward into the mouthpiece only enough to stop the leaks without losing the feel in my embouchure that I have when I'm backed off. I can play a double Bb reasonably well with zero pressure. It is certainly not necessary to use any mouthpiece pressure at all beyond what is necessary to maintain a seal. It's a crutch. A harmful one, as you are seeing.

Others here may tell you pressure is a good thing. I do not agree. I think pressure is the enemy of playing trombone. And you're obviously using enough pressure to cause you problems. Your ring shouldn't be prominent, shouldn't be permanent, and you shouldn't feel it on your teeth or gums. You may not think you're using "insane" pressure, but it's clearly far too much. And using that pressure destroys endurance and technique.

Whether you're using that pressure to mask something you're doing improperly or not, I can't say. But you have got to back off and learn to play those high notes or whatever without bashing your face with the mouthpiece. It should all feel gentle and relaxed. All the work should be happening inside the mouthpiece, not on the rim, and all you need is a seal on the mouthpiece, no more.

Mouthpiece pressure is the devil.

/soap box

[ChuckTbone]

Is the plating on your mouthpiece rim intact?

Yes my mouthpiece is quite new, it is silver plated and is still in very good condition. I have used silver mouthpieces before and never really had this much of an issue.

[Doug Elliott]

Excess pressure is a sign that something else is wrong. Something you're doing, or something you're not doing, wrong mouthpiece size for you, some kind of inefficiency.

Whatever it is, is not usually fixed by simply "using less pressure."

[AtomicClock]

Excess pressure is a sign that something else is wrong. Something you're doing, or something you're not doing, wrong mouthpiece size for you, some kind of inefficiency.

Could it be as simple as not yet acclimated to the "quite new" Wedge mouthpiece?

[tbdana]

Excess pressure is a sign that something else is wrong. Something you're doing, or something you're not doing, wrong mouthpiece size for you, some kind of inefficiency.

Whatever it is, is not usually fixed by simply "using less pressure."

Nor can it be fixed by using pressure. Whatever it is, using less pressure is a prerequisite to fixing it. Pressure just masks the problem. It also interferes with correcting it. Now, I'm no expert at diagnosing your problem. That's why I said,

Whether you're using that pressure to mask something you're doing improperly or not, I can't say.

But I will maintain until I'm cold in the ground that you can't solve whatever the problem is by continuing to use too much pressure. You have to reduce the pressure first and fix whatever underlying problem you might have.

Have Doug or someone diagnose your problem and fix it. But either way, you gotta stop with the pressure. I will die on this hill. LOL.

[OneTon]

Too much pressure is best solved by Dana or Doug. I am Howard Hughes about hygiene. I use the soft vinyl tuba mouthpiece pouch. Every time I use it, I clean the mouthpiece with Dawn dish soap and rinse with hot water. After drying, I throw the wet paper towel away, and place a new folded paper towel in the rim interface side of the mouthpiece pouch. I clean the slide, inners and outers once a week. The mouthpiece pouch gets cleaned several times a year. I only shave once a day. I am somewhat allergic to green peppers. I can eat them if they’re cooked. If I eat them raw i break out, inside and sometimes outside my mouth. You could have a food allergy. Good luck.

[mrdeacon]

No one has mentioned allergies yet.

I always had similar symptoms when I played in high school. Early on in my college career I switched to gold plate and later lexan rims and all those issues went away. I wish someone in high school had told me I had a nickel allergy! Would have saved me a lot of trouble and pain.

[Doug Elliott]

Not nickel, there's no nickel in mouthpieces (ordinarily).
Silver allergy is not uncommon, it's worthwhile to try Lexan.

[ChuckTbone]

I checked and both my Greg Black mouthpiece (which I’ve used for years before) and my new wedge mouthpiece are both made out of silver plated brass. I’ve never had much of a problem before but now it seems to have broken my top lip out and they will not go away.

[Elow]

I had a very bad reaction to a nickle plated saxophone ligature, also a little bit of irritation from a silver plated rim that had been very scratched up. I play on lexan and don’t have any problems, I used to be picky over facial hair as well but not with lexan.

[AtomicClock]

I checked and both my Greg Black mouthpiece (which I’ve used for years before) and my new wedge mouthpiece are both made out of silver plated brass. I’ve never had much of a problem before but now it seems to have broken my top lip out and they will not go away.

Stop using the Wedge for a while, and see what happens.

Heck, I have trouble enough moving between rim sizes. Are you also switching rim SHAPES?

[ChuckTbone]

I checked and both my Greg Black mouthpiece (which I’ve used for years before) and my new wedge mouthpiece are both made out of silver plated brass. I’ve never had much of a problem before but now it seems to have broken my top lip out and they will not go away.

Stop using the Wedge for a while, and see what happens.

Heck, I have trouble enough moving between rim sizes. Are you also switching rim SHAPES?

Haha I can try that. I’m a little nervous my embouchure will start to curl upwards whenever I play higher notes like it did before I started using the wedge mouthpiece but hopefully the muscles have gotten better and my embouchure will stay straighter on the regular Greg Black mouthpiece.

[tbdana]

Haha I can try that. I’m a little nervous my embouchure will start to curl upwards whenever I play higher notes like it did before I started using the wedge mouthpiece but hopefully the muscles have gotten better and my embouchure will stay straighter on the regular Greg Black mouthpiece.

I'm not even sure what "embouchure curl upwards" means, but I'm pretty certain it at least means you're doing something wrong. Doug and a couple others here specialize in diagnostics and repair of embouchures. Why don't you try getting on a Zoom call with one of them, and see if they can figure out what's going on under the hood? You have a lot of issues going on, what with pimples, pressure, changing mouthpieces and whatever "curl upwards" means. It could be that you can get set right with all of it with a Zoom call or two.

This is the first time here that I have ever found myself among the "get a Zoom call with Doug" brigade.

[BGuttman]

We usually recommend Doug or his former student Dave Wilken because they are here. There are probably other teachers who can do the same thing. I like Doug simply because I have met him in person a couple of times.