A mouthpiece that will help support high playing

[Daaaaaaaaaaan]

Hey everyone,

I'm a new here and not a huge gearhead, but I was wondering if there were any suggestions for a mouthpiece that might help me stabilize my high range. For context, I'm playing in a big party brass band, so sometimes I take stuff up the octave, which puts me in the Bb4-Ab5 range. I can usually get a solid sound up to an F5 but when I try to get above that it gets really squirrely. I also have a few tenor sax solo transcriptions I'm trying to learn as well which go up there (there's a video of a guy playing Joshua Redmond's solo on Jazz Crimes on bone and I wanna be able to do that too).

Long story short, I'm wondering if there's a mouthpiece that will slot a little harder up above F5 so I'm not always feeling like I'm drifting around the note so much. Any ideas or am I just not practicing enough?

[BGuttman]

There is no free lunch. A mouthpiece that will make playing high easier will generally ruin your tone in the lower register.

I have known guys who can play up to Bb5, but I'm certainly not one of them. Most of them got there by doing some serious rangebuilding. And it took a fair amount of time.

That said, generally a smaller and shallower mouthpiece will help the upper range; usually at the expense of the lower notes. As an example, Tommy Dorsey used an Almont that was copied by Schilke (I think as the 42). But you never heard him play inside the bass staff.

[harrisonreed]

If you're playing that high, staying up from D5 to Ab5, you might actually benefit from a more open throat, tighter backbore, shallow cup, and a fat, Banda-style rim. Everything in the octaves below might suffer, but you might get some consistency up there.

That's a specialty suggestion, and not something that I know of as an off the shelf option.

The other idea would be a straight up Banda mouthpiece with a tight throat and double cup, like this:

https://camposmusicusa.com/products/gar ... mouthpiece

You might not blend at all with your group though. I have an alto trombone mouthpiece that uses a similar but much less extreme version of this idea and it is really easy to get the upper register by throwing lots of air, rather than relying more on the face.

[Macbone1]

As a brand, l recommend shopping on the Marcinkiewicz web site. No matter what (small) size you choose, you won't find a more comfortable rim especially for that high range. Good prices too.

[JohnL]

It would help to know what sort of gear (both mouthpiece and horn) you're currently using.

[harrisonreed]

OP's on the Yamaha jazz horn I think

[OneTon]

I contacted Al Kay, one of the consultants on the YSL-697Z, regarding mouthpiece selection, 15 years ago or so. I think i even had one of his signature mouthpieces. His reply regarding Bach 11C and Schilke 47 mouthpieces was that both were good and either would work. Ian McDougall, another Canadian professional 697 trombone player, was still using the Marcinkiewicz ET2, which was a copy of his Bach 11C which came from Bach with a production anomaly, with his 697. Any of the Marcinkiewicz signature mouthpieces would probably work. Kanstul consultant Al Kaplan’s signature mouthpiece was closer to a Bach 12C. None of those guys have or had endurance problems and their low e probably didn’t suck. I play the 697 with a Mount Vernon Bach 11C and I have a strong low e. Bach 7C is used by some. The Faxx 7C is a good copy of the original Bach Mount Vernon proof 7C at half the price. Bigger mouthpieces will be recommended by this site’s users. Ian McDougall said, in an emailed response, “Pick one, stick with it, and BLOW.” The newer production Bach mouthpieces are more consistent than they used to be. There isn’t a huge difference between the current Bach 11C and my (good) Mount Vernon. Doug Elliott would probaby give you a Skype lesson with you, correct any technique issues, and recommend something personally for you. He is the next best thing to seeing Almont. Good luck.

[modelerdc]

I have an Elliot B cup with B2 shank that works well up high but the sound in the regular range is rather trumpety. Some horns just slot better up high, I like the slots in the upper range on Shires, small vintage conns also slot well. It's hard to beat a King 2B for high range work.

[Matt K]

Paradoxically, some of us find that rims that are traditionally considered large make high AND low range better. I find my Elliott 104 rim to be infinitely easier to play up through altissimo Bb than a 6.5AL size or a 12C etc. Impossible to say if you’re one of us over text though but do bear that in mind.

[imsevimse]

You could try the J. Marcinkiewicz ET7* D.Steinmeyer signature mouthpiece. The rim is close to an 11C but more shallow. It is definately a mouthpiece that is designed for the heigh register. There are pros and negs with such a mouthpiece but negs is not something that can be heard when someone like D. Steinmeyer plays it.

This is from the Marcinkiewicz page.

Model: 84070O
utside Cup Diameter: 1.561 in.
Inside Cup Diameter: .981 in.
Cup Depth: .761 in.
Drill Venturi: .228 in.
Length: 3.14 in.
Comparison: Bach 18
Finish: 24K Gold Rim and Cup

I got one in silver. Info says it compares to a Bach 18. When I play it it feels good on the lips and I usually play 11C so I don't prevaile it as awkward compared to that. I have a Bach Mt Vernon 18 too and that feels a lot different on my lips. That one feels small and not as comfortable.

Just tried it and you do not automatically sound like D Steinmeyer on it but it is cmfortable and very shallow and still a nice low E. I couldn't play higher on this compared to my usual 11C but F# and G # was a little more secure, at least slotted better up there and higher too, even though I never use that. Yes, after a few more minutes I can see it is infact easier to play high on this mouthpiece, especially ballade style. Slide vibrato also feel different on this mouthpiece, more elegant. I guess it's because the notes center better, a more compact and dense sound at least for me. This could help you if you are one of those who are comfortable on smaller rim mouthpieces. There are probably negs to, but haven't found out yet. Maybe I try this for a while next to my Bach 11C, Yamaha Nils Landgren signature and the Shires Marshal Gilkes signature. It makes sense with one mouthpiece such as this if I get to play a ballade in my highest register.

/Tom

[tbdana]

...I take stuff up the octave, which puts me in the Bb4-Ab5 range. I can usually get a solid sound up to an F5...I'm wondering if there's a mouthpiece that will slot a little harder up above F5 so I'm not always feeling like I'm drifting around the note so much. Any ideas or am I just not practicing enough?

You want a mouthpiece that will help you slot better above the top of the treble clef staff? Perhaps you should try a trumpet.

But seriously, that's not a mouthpiece issue, that's a range issue. As you get to the top of your range up there, partials don't slot as well because of your chops, not your mouthpiece. The solution is to extend your range even higher. When that Ab5 is at the very top of your range, the partials below it won't speak well because you're not centering the note well with your embouchure. But if that Ab5 is a solid note with a normal tone, and not a squeal, you'll get the partials better.

Sorry to come into an equipment forum and talk about practicing, but that's really your solution.

Bummer, I know.