Freelancing vs employed position

[EriKon]

Lately I find myself thinking a lot about trying to get a steady employed position (or at least a half-time position) in music. I love the flexibility of freelancing and the opportunity to say yes and no to jobs (if I would only learn to actually sometimes say no...). And freelancing works well for me, I definitely have enough to play and as a lecturer for jazz trombone at a university of arts one steady teaching day per week. So everything works fine. But there's always a tiny little 'what if' in my head.

So, question to the hive mind: Why are you employed or freelancing? And why do you prefer one over the other? Or is it more like "only the ones good enough get a steady position and who doesn't get one has to freelance"? Hopefully we can get an interesting discussion about this imo important topic started.

[Doug Elliott]

I have never had a "normal" or steady job except the 8 years I was in the USAF Airmen of Note. And occasional short theater or touring gigs, but that's still part of freelancing. Even my mouthpiece business (and teaching) is "work when I can" scheduled around other things.
I prefer it that way and like the flexibility, but a steady income is also convenient.
It sounds like you have the best of both.

AND, I consider freelancing to be the most rewarding career, always getting to do different things and trying to be a perfect fit in every situation. Having one gig invites stagnation.

[WilliamLang]

It doesn't have to do with being "good enough." A person has to decide what they want, decide how much they're going to commit to get there, constantly check in with themselves, and get lucky on top of all that to have a career in music, either on payroll or freelance.

I'm getting steady non-seasonal paychecks for the first time in my life really, and I find I don't prefer one over the other, but I've found that freelancing isn't a path for the artistic life I want to lead (basically due to politicking more than music, honestly,) so I've leaned into creating my own career and only lately using that as a separation factor in academic settings.

Everyone will have a different opinion of course, but when I think about the younger generation I don't see it being possible/probable to just casually fall into a career within either path.

[Burgerbob]

Either one takes dedication and luck.

I'm lucky enough to be gridded two days at work, and freelance otherwise, so I get both to a degree. Stability and diversity is nice to have.

[imsevimse]

I think to choose to sit in one of the orchestras isn't possible. That needs a lot of commitment and luck. You need to be the best that day when the audition is and competition is so hard. You have to prepare for that for a lifetime so it's 100% commitment and 100% luck and if you get such a job in the end is at the same time a choice and a gamble. You could choose to be a teacher at one time and that's what I did, I'm not sure that's the same today. Now they cut down a lot in the public music schools and lots of brass teachers can not find full time jobs in teaching unless you also combine the brass with piano, drums, guitar etc.

There was a time 1988-1995 when I choose to teach and had to turn down freelance jobs. My job as a music teacher took most of my time and was 100%. I could only do freelance jobs on weekends. All evenings in a week I had students or I led orchestras or choires. Most of my friends did the opposite and worked as a teacher 20-40% and freelanced the rest. I had a steady income and they didn't, but they could play more and slowly they got better and better freelace jobs. What is best in the end? It depends. I needed the stready income and considered any freelance jobs I had to be a bonus. This was until they decided to cut down in our music school. After that I only had 80%. This, and other things made me change carrier completely and started tu study to become a system developer instead. If I look at my friends today a lot of them still work as teachers and do what they always have done, freelance as much as they can. I do like the steady income more even though it's not from music nowdays. If you have a house and a family a steady income can be tempting.

/Tom

[hyperbolica]

I've been freelance for the past 20+ years, although not exclusively musical. Mostly engineering work but the freelance vs full-time question seems to have the same answers regardless of field.

I got out of full time work because I worked for schmucks and had enough contacts I could get a steady flow of work. The worst part at first was losing the insurance, but my wife's job picked me up.

Freelance money for me has been uneven. Sometimes I cash a big check, and then nothing for a while. Sometimes it's a series of small things. Honestly I consider the music income to be part of my total.

The good side of freelance as mentioned is that you get to choose who you work for/with, and when. The schedule is a huge benefit.

Other downsides are the accounting and marketing yourself you have to do. And when you don't get paid, you have to chase that down yourself.

When you get closer or into retirement you can adjust your schedule to fit your needs.

A part time scheduled gig or a spouse with a real job can make it work. If you have kids, freelance flexibility can be a huge (child care cost) benefit.

Lots of things to consider.

[EriKon]

Thanks for all the replies so far! Few things come to my mind reading the replies. Mobile right now, so can't quote everyone. Will just use @ and hope folks will continue checking the thread.

@Doug: Do you have the feeling that the freelance business has changed over the years? More from a structural point of view? Because you've been in the scene for a long time now which I find absolutely fascinating and I'm not entirely sure if I could survive (especially mentally) freelancing for that long.

@Tom & hyperbolica: I'm always amazed by people who do something else to pay the bills and still play or teach trombone on a high level. Couldn't imagine that for myself.

[EriKon]

Oh and in general:
The freelance feedback is very positive atm. But for those who did that exclusively: Has it always been cool? Didn't you think about changing something if the calendar is not as full as it should be or used to be? Or is that just me?

As I said, I usually have more than enough to play/work, to a point that I really have to check where to get rests. And every now and then (usually once a year, sometimes twice), there's a period of time maybe 2-3 weeks with nearly nothing to play/work. I would actually love to be able to see this as a welcome rest and time for myself to practice a lot and check out new stuff. But in fact I find myself getting super nervous, starting to question everything (that works completely fine for the other 50 weeks of the year) and thinking about changing things in my life (e.g. trying to get a steady gig/job). All in a very negative way and with a lot self-doubt ("Am I good enough to do this?").

From what I can tell talking with colleagues, that's something many people have going on with themselves but rarely talk about it. So, if people over here feel alright with sharing stories and thoughts about this, that would be much encouraged and appreciated. Or doesn't that happen with other trombonists?

[Doug Elliott]

Some things haven't changed. A lot of gigs pay the same as they did 40 years ago.
There's a lot less freelancing work now. But I'm doing different things.

[Finetales]

Why are you employed or freelancing? And why do you prefer one over the other?

Freelancing was always my goal since I set out to be a musician. Sure, a steady orchestra gig would be nice both financially and (hopefully) musically, but I really enjoy every gig, every day, and every week being a new experience. I get tons of variety in my work and my "office" is totally different day to day. While the money can sometimes be tight if it's a down month, I make enough and I'm having a blast.

That being said, a consistent schedule of fun, musical work that is still totally flexible so you can continue to freelance as freely as before (the Disney grid burgerbob has, for example) is definitely not something I would say no to.

[tbdana]

I freelance now, but I'm only supplementing my retirement, I don't have to rely on it exclusively. But I'm a freelancer at heart, anyway.

[EriKon]

Why are you employed or freelancing? And why do you prefer one over the other?

Freelancing was always my goal since I set out to be a musician. Sure, a steady orchestra gig would be nice both financially and (hopefully) musically, but I really enjoy every gig, every day, and every week being a new experience. I get tons of variety in my work and my "office" is totally different day to day. While the money can sometimes be tight if it's a down month, I make enough and I'm having a blast.

That being said, a consistent schedule of fun, musical work that is still totally flexible so you can continue to freelance as freely as before (the Disney grid burgerbob has, for example) is definitely not something I would say no to.

That sounds like a really positive attitude and a healthy way of looking at it and dealing with it. Hopefully I can learn to feel similarly. I think I'm on my way but might take another while.

[Finetales]

That sounds like a really positive attitude and a healthy way of looking at it and dealing with it. Hopefully I can learn to feel similarly. I think I'm on my way but might take another while.

Well, everybody is different. Some people thrive on routine, others thrive on the absence of it, and still others need a mix. I've never liked routine in any aspect of my life, so freelancing makes sense for me. But I know musicians who live on routines, so a steady gig is what works best for them and makes them happiest. Freelancing is the perfect match for what I do musically and how I like my daily life to be, but not everybody is like that.

We all do whatever we need to to make a living, but it's nice when your career lines up with how you like to live.

[WilliamLang]

Personal experience here - I like freelancing, and enjoy doing a variety of playing and music. But with the industry, I just found that music gigs are less about the music and more about the gig. I found myself wanting more art out of the experience, which wasn't a great place to be for myself or the people around me. So there's a lot of ways to view the question and see your relationship to the industry at large.

[blast]

From the long term career point of view, having a regular job is preferable but , for most, unobtainable. You can get time off to do outside work in most playing jobs and the idea that you can get stale in a regular job is a nonsense. You are being listened to all the time in an orchestra job. A very, very small number of people enjoy an elite freelance career, but most people experience constant feast and famine of freelance employment. If you can cope with that, fine. It's not easy.

[MStarke]

I am self-employed/freelancing, but NOT in music.

Generally it's pretty clear - the risk is substantially higher. Thereby financially it only really makes sense if potential compensation is substantially higher. Which is typically not the case in music.

Obviously this ignores all other aspects that may make freelancing in music attractive.

I would imagine the perfect mix would be a part-time (+-50%) permanent job augmented with interesting freelance opportunities.
While I know you (Erik) are a really top and very versatile player - great prerequisites for a freelance career - it's certainly still challenging in the long run, especially if at some point you might have family.

On the other hand obviously permanent positions as jazz/commercial trombonist are EXTREMELY rare, also in Germany where we have multiple full-time bigbands. I think somewhere in the next years there might be a lead trombone position open in Cologne

[EriKon]

I am self-employed/freelancing, but NOT in music.

Generally it's pretty clear - the risk is substantially higher. Thereby financially it only really makes sense if potential compensation is substantially higher. Which is typically not the case in music.

Obviously this ignores all other aspects that may make freelancing in music attractive.

I would imagine the perfect mix would be a part-time (+-50%) permanent job augmented with interesting freelance opportunities.
While I know you (Erik) are a really top and very versatile player - great prerequisites for a freelance career - it's certainly still challenging in the long run, especially if at some point you might have family.

On the other hand obviously permanent positions as jazz/commercial trombonist are EXTREMELY rare, also in Germany where we have multiple full-time bigbands. I think somewhere in the next years there might be a lead trombone position open in Cologne

In jazz it is for sure a lot harder to get a permanent position because there are so few of them. Yeah there will likely be two openings in the German radio bigbands in the next few years. Getting one of those requires not only hard and good work but mostly a lot of luck. So I'm realistic enough to not plan with getting one of those.

I personally see myself more likely to get a permanent lecturer/professor position for jazz trombone at some point, because I have good concepts with working on jazz impro and style. But we will see about that. Freelancing works quite well, I have quite steady pit gigs and the lecturer position. So I really can't complain except for the fact that I have quite little jazz gigs this year so far. But there will be other times and I will have more time to organize sth in the future hopefully, so that I don't have to rely on others to ask me.

Your mix of having a 50% position (and freelancing the rest, doing my own music e.g.) sounds very good and I think this is something I'll try to achieve at some point.

[EriKon]

From the long term career point of view, having a regular job is preferable but , for most, unobtainable. You can get time off to do outside work in most playing jobs and the idea that you can get stale in a regular job is a nonsense. You are being listened to all the time in an orchestra job. A very, very small number of people enjoy an elite freelance career, but most people experience constant feast and famine of freelance employment. If you can cope with that, fine. It's not easy.

I think that sums up the overall situation in the scene very well. And realizing this, I feel like I can be very happy with how things work for me atm. Because my downphase is very short and there are usually only one or two of those throughout the year.

[LeTromboniste]

Yeah freelancing is hard but rewarding. What I find hardest is the insane amount of hours that need to be spent on selling your own projects to presenters, and then when you do sell them, the mountain of admin that follows. It's a never-ending loop and you have to be looking at years ahead of where you are. Hard to balance with the day-to-day practicing, traveling and gigging.

And I agree with Markus' pefect mix of 50/50. My ideal would be either having a half professorship, or a chair in a part-time orchestra (~30-40%) plus the steady-ish lectureship (~10-20%), plus freelance.

[izMadman]

I am self-employed/freelancing, but NOT in music.

Generally it's pretty clear - the risk is substantially higher. Thereby financially it only really makes sense if potential compensation is substantially higher. Which is typically not the case in music.

Obviously this ignores all other aspects that may make freelancing in music attractive.

I would imagine the perfect mix would be a part-time (+-50%) permanent job augmented with interesting freelance opportunities.
While I know you (Erik) are a really top and very versatile player - great prerequisites for a freelance career - it's certainly still challenging in the long run, especially if at some point you might have family.

On the other hand obviously permanent positions as jazz/commercial trombonist are EXTREMELY rare, also in Germany where we have multiple full-time bigbands. I think somewhere in the next years there might be a lead trombone position open in Cologne

Good point about the financial risks! Part-time permanent job + freelance work sounds like a great balance. And who knows, maybe that Cologne trombone spot will come up soon

[dukesboneman]

I was a High School Band Director for 35 years. Loved it.
But..... I HAD to play. It kept me connected as to why I wanted a career in music.
That being said, I still freelance quite a bit and enjoy the variety as many of have said.
But I also really love belonging to a Band. 12 years with a Trad Jazz Band
16 Years with an exceptional Classic R&B/Soul Band
4 1/2 years with a Blues Band that had a phenomenal front man
12 years with a Jazz Quintet now some of these overlap
The musical "Magic" happens when you play with the same people in a certain setting/band over a long period of time. That trust that forms on stage and off
Plus when the kids saw me practicing it was a role model for them.
I think both can coexist

[2bobone]

"AND, I consider freelancing to be the most rewarding career ----------.

I definitely concur with Doug. Although I occupied an orchestral chair for 25+ years, I always looked forward to any freelance work that came along. Musical shows, ballet, opera, big band, chamber music. It was all so inviting and challenging to play in a different section, a different hall with different repertoire. You could prove to yourself that you could still "walk the walk". I often pretended that I was freelancing when the Music Director went to somewhere warm to spend their ill-gotten gains and a guest conductor took over the reins ! It really helped to enliven the boredom that a mediocre Music Director can bring to the table ! Freelancing may not be a totally reliable income source but it's definitely a major reason that I sought out a career in music.

[tbdana]

Another on the plus side for freelancing: you don't put all your eggs in one basket. Gigs disappear. Circumstances change. Sexual assault allegations arise and you're not granted tenure because you spoke up. Whatever. Freelancers can afford to lose a gig, they just can't afford to lose all the gigs.

[VJOFan]

My main problem with freelancing was the social component. After doing some casual gigs during my undergrad I went all in on winning an orchestra chair. I got one in a small orchestra and loved it. I didn’t have to meet new people all the time or constantly worry about being “on”. I just had to practice and play. Being in that position got me called for things in town, and as long as I was a pleasant person I’d get called again. My job did the networking for me.

Eventually I realized that I wouldn’t move up the orchestra ladder in any timely fashion so switched out of performing for a living entirely to be able to pay for a family. 30 years later I am an old high school teacher playing occasional free lance and community stuff. I’m in a smaller centre so it’s a lot of the same people all the time- much easier on the social side.

If one is not a people person it might be hard to flourish in a freelance life, but if one doesn’t like listening to three movements of Brahms from the back of an orchestra before coming in on an exposed, treacherous, yet not super exciting passage…

but the next show is probably a big band tribute or movie music or something else that keeps you active.

Love the horn, do the best for the music and let things happen as they will.