Revisiting the 88H

[harrisonreed]

I sold my 88HTCL about two years ago, since I hadn't played it in 8 years or so. It was a great instrument with the best slide I've ever owned, but the upper register was a bit difficult compared to the T-350 and 396A, and I had found that I prefer the ergonomics of a wider slide. Wider slides are not necessarily better in my mind for response or sound, but they just put the mouthpiece in a better workspace for me.

I had basically put the 88H aside as something that is fun to play, sounds really nice, but wasn't as easy to play as my Edwards.

I have recently begun using a borrowed 88H for outdoor ceremonies, marching, etc, and in this case I've got a model with the CL valve and a heavy sterling silver bell. I've gotta say, the horn is really something else. With this one, the upper register is right there with my Edwards, and the sound is clear. I've really been liking it in the BQ, too.

I think that if I could design a horn right now, it would be based off this sterling 88H, but maybe have a wider crook - maybe Getzen width, which I think is in between Edwards and the 88H. And it would be cool to try the CL2000 against the Meinlschmidt/Minick type rotor.

It's nice to be able to appreciate different horns for what they are! Edwards, Eastlake Conns, vintage Kings, and Getzen have never disappointed me.

[MStarke]

So that's basically the same model that Cl himself plays, right? I have actually always been tempted by one of these.

Currently I have an Elkhart 88h, a modern 88ht and an 88htg/88ht with Greenhoe valve. I know that's overkill, but it gives some good variation with the same general character. The Elkhart is certainly the lightest/most colourful, while the 88htg is easiest to play and holds up best at higher volumes.

To me the Conns work really well, but I would be interested in trying the Getzen Bousfield at some point. And maybe an 88ht with the CL valve again.

[harrisonreed]

Yeah, it's basically the same horn as the SGX, minus the cosmetic differences. I think sterling is a underrated bell material!

[tbdana]

I currently have the 88HCLSGX which is the Sterling Silver CL model that you describe. The high register on mine is absolutely beautiful. Yeah, you're right, it's a great model. Why do you want a larger crook on it?

[EriKon]

Interesting. I haven't played an 88H that was made within the last 20 years that I enjoyed playing, but this might have been just a handful.

But I'm absolutely in love with my 1970 Elkhart 88H that I bought from a forum member. Have compared it with several other Elkhart 88Hs and it always turned out to be the winner. Has an extremely easy high range, but also a incredibly good low range and trigger register. Love it and since I have it, I completely stopped looking for other large bores. Only trying others for fun sometimes and to be able to talk about it

[harrisonreed]

I currently have the 88HCLSGX which is the Sterling Silver CL model that you describe. The high register on mine is absolutely beautiful. Yeah, you're right, it's a great model. Why do you want a larger crook on it?

The wider slide is more comfortable to play, and I get a better upper register on wider slides -- I think that's literally because my embouchure can work better, and not because of anything happening in the crook itself. My switch from the 88H to the Edwards slide was pretty drastic in terms of ease of playing up there.

I have played the newer 88H style Getzens, with Elkie style bells, and they have a bit wider slide. They're easy to play upstairs, like the Edwards.

I think that an 88HS with that Getzen crook would be even better.

[CalgaryTbone]

When I was first thinking about getting an Edwards, I was in NYC on an orchestra vacation week, and I stopped into a midtown music store that had one of the early Getzen thayer horns. It was a really nice horn, and just for kicks, I tried the slide on my Elkhart 8H. It worked really well on that bell (so did the original, by the way). The Getzen slides have Conn-sized connections, while the Edwards are Bach-sized. A Getzen slide would be the easiest way to try this combo, without resorting to "surgery".

Jim Scott

[Finetales]

A 1962 88H was my main/only large tenor for quite a few years. It had a magical sound, but you really had to be playing it every day for it to settle in and work for you. If I was playing large tenor an in orchestra every day, I might have never sold it, but since I only get calls to play large tenor a couple times a year I need a horn that just immediately works without fuss, no matter how infrequently I play it. This is how my 3Bs and 72H are, but my 88H was definitely not that. So I eventually replaced it with a Y-Fort, which takes all the difficulty out of playing large tenor for me (while still having a cool sound).

That said, there may very well be an 88H out there that plays just as easily (it would have to be new enough to have a modern receiver!) and has that magic sound my old one had. Maybe an 88HTG, or even just a particularly good modern 88H. I've only ever tried a handful of 88Hs...the 1962 I had, the 1970 I have now that's a survivor rather than a player, a nickel plated Elkhart 88H with a Thayer valve (that I adored), and a friend's 88HNV. The 88HNV is an interesting one - that specific horn was a display horn at NAMM before my friend bought it, and at NAMM I just thought it was decent. But later I played it at said friend's house and I loved it. Very easy and even, but with that special 88H sound.

I don't see myself going on a large tenor hunt again for a long time, but if it does end up being necessary an exceptional modern 88H might be a solution.

[harrisonreed]

When I was first thinking about getting an Edwards, I was in NYC on an orchestra vacation week, and I stopped into a midtown music store that had one of the early Getzen thayer horns. It was a really nice horn, and just for kicks, I tried the slide on my Elkhart 8H. It worked really well on that bell (so did the original, by the way). The Getzen slides have Conn-sized connections, while the Edwards are Bach-sized. A Getzen slide would be the easiest way to try this combo, without resorting to "surgery".

Jim Scott

I forgot about that! Duh! I could just use a Getzen slide. The leadpipe would be different though

[Matt K]

The reverse works really well too, I have a Conn SL4762 that I play on my Getzen bell 725 valve/3047 bell when I want something bigger than the stock 525/547 slide.

[CalgaryTbone]

Easy to have a Conn leadpipe set up with Getzen/Edwards threads (the leadpipe threads are the same for Getzen/Edwards).

JS

[harrisonreed]

Easy to have a Conn leadpipe set up with Getzen/Edwards threads (the leadpipe threads are the same for Getzen/Edwards).

JS

The Getzens I've used all had fixed yellow pipes in them. Who knows, that pipe could even be better than the standard 88H one. Good to know though!

[Posaunus]

I forgot about that! Duh! I could just use a Getzen slide. The leadpipe would be different though
[/quote]

The Getzen 0.547" slides have replaceable leadpipes. Try a few (or a few dozen, once you step into the rabbit hole - it's just time and money) until you find the Conn sound (or better) that you're imagining.

[harrisonreed]

I'm telling you, the Getzens I've used all had fixed pipes in them. I know certain models have threaded slides though.

This was one of them, but the example I had had a yellow crook:

https://www.getzen.com/trombones/eterna-series/1047fr/

I've tried some other Eternas as well. They're way better than I expected.

[Matt K]

The 3xxx lineup have modular leadpipe (3047 and 3062) with threaded Edwards collars and come with the same leadpipes that edwards comes with. Everything else (except some of the 4xxx slides) have fixed pipes. For their 1047 I would imagine they’re using a 1, 2, or 3 pipe. I doubt they’d go through the trouble of making a special pipe for it. The 4xxx series likely do have special pipes since they’re the “artists horns” (such as the Bousfield, Enzo, etc).

[Posaunus]

The (excellent) Getzen 3047AF comes with 3 leadpipes.
https://www.getzen.com/trombones/custom-series/3047af/

[CalgaryTbone]

This is being discussed on another thread too - the early versions of the pro Getzens had fixed leadpipes, but after a few years, they started making them with threaded pipes. I think that when they started offering pro Getzen models, they were concerned about people buying a less expensive Getzen and then slowly upgrading it into an Edwards by picking up new bells, leadpipes, etc. That was one reason that they used Conn fittings vs. Bach on the two horns, and had fixed leadpipes. They've moved beyond that thinking now, especially since they have great Getzen models _ Bousfield and Enzo (?) (sorry, I don't have his last name handy!).

Jim Scott

[harrisonreed]

Yeah that thread literally has a 3047AF with a fixed pipe. I get that a few models now have the threaded receivers though. That would be cool to try too.

Anyways, the Eternal series doesn't have them either, and those are the horns I really like from Getzen. I think the 88HS bell section with that Getzen slide would be awesome.

[Posaunus]

Yeah that thread literally has a 3047AF with a fixed pipe. I get that a few models now have the threaded receivers though.

Anyways, the Eternal series doesn't have them either, and those are the horns I really like from Getzen. I think the 88HS bell section with that Getzen slide would be awesome.

I think of Getzen's Eterna series as one step below their "professional-level" trombones, but that's probably my personal preference / ignorance.

The Getzen 3047AF is a very fine trombone, with a Conn-compatible slide and replaceable leadpipes.
Slide works well with my 88H and 88HCL.

[Northernigel]

I've taken a chance on buying a Conn 88h from an antique dealer on ebay. I'm not sure what I've bought as arrives in a few days. The serial number is 978551 which suggests 1962, but the bell says USA not Elkhart and it is in the modern Conn Case.
Remarkably there was no last minute scamble to raise the bids and I've paid about £1000 less than expected. The listing was by an antique dealer and the photos, although very clear were not the usual view and the description perhaps raised further doubts.

Code: Select all

Description: 
Conn 88H Trombone  symphony with case 1962 Classic in beautiful condition.

This example, serial number 978551 which has been dated to 1962 appears to have no damage to the body whatsoever. 
It looks fantastic & has been obviously cherished during its lifetime 
I cannot give an opinion on its working condition because I have not got the skillset. 
I have detailed as much of the description on the 24 photos with this listing however if you want more just ask for the specifics.
I am aware that these instruments in this condition can fetch £2000 plus, so the starting price is beneath a thousand 
Please see the photos which form part of the description

This is a very nice unusual  item.

Any advice or comments from collectors will be gratefully received

Everything else you need to know 

THE ITEM IS PACKED AWAITING POSTAGE , IF PAYMENT IS MADE THE ITEM WILL BE PROMPTLY POSTED.

Antiques: Where an item is an antique or vintage please expect the item to have minor marks & scratches commensurate with age, unless stated as perfect.

The seller's other ebay items, about 200 were classic watches and vases etc.
I requested detailed photos of the slide and explained why, exchanged a few messages and decided it was a genuine sale.
I doubt it is an Elkhart but will be a nice addition to the herd, an option for third chair in a Big Band