Ancient Conn 64H bass

[NotSkilledHere]

Calling bass enthusiasts and especially Conn historians and aficionados. If anyone knows anything about this horn, please do let me know! I am very curious about this horn!

I have found and obtained an example of a 1926 Conn 64H bass trombone. I can't seem to find any other documented examples or pictures of another existing example online, but please correct me if I'm wrong. This is not to be confused with the Pan American 64H.

I know on here a few years ago, there was a Conn 12H bass for sale. It's a close cousin to this horn; the 12H is TIS and the wrap is flatter than the wrap on this.

From what I have gathered online, and by visual measuring, by all measurements and dimensions, this horn measures exactly as a modern large bore tenor. I'm unclear on the actual bore. It's either a 0.540 or 0.547. The mp receiver seems to let mp sit slightly deeper than on my Bach 42 and Yamaha 882. The slide has the springy 1st position and is similar in dimensions to my Bach 42 slide.

From what I can see, it seems to be a gold plated horn. Although I am not completely positive because of sunfading and wear and just probably a few layers of light dust and/or grime that needs to be cleaned off, and some conn horns seem to have lacquer that ages into a honey gold color over time. However, it does look distinctly much more gold than yellow brass but not gold like gold brass though.

It also appears to have been a Marine Corp horn based on the USMC engraving on the lower bell flare. Please do correct me if I'm wrong. Would the Marine Corp have kept any historical documentation of when the horn was in their band?

As you can well see, the horn is in...a modular state....not by its own choice but by what appears to have been previous trauma. However, the pieces all line up just fine and should solder back together fairly straightforwardly. All the slides do move and smoothly at that. The handslide is aligned albeit weirdly. If I sit it on a table, it's clear that the slide is not flat. However, it falls under its own weight and exhibits no roughness or much friction unlubed sooooo...that's good to see? honestly feels like a solid 7.5/10. should I have it realigned? the inner slides seem to exhibit some wear but are in quite good condition from what I can tell. The slide crook does seem a little bashed in.

I do intend to have the horn professionally cleaned and restored to pre-trauma condition.

If anyone has any information or anecdotes on this horn, or it's cousins the 12h, 66h and 14h, or anything, I would love to hear it!

[brassmedic]

According to Conn Loyalist, #4½ Bore Large Bore Symphony with Piston valve to F & E made between 1920 and 1923. So yeah, same bore as 8H.

[Chazzer69]

I think I saw that horn! I was curious about it but didn't bid. So that piston valve is not a modification? It's original to the horn design? That's wild.

[NotSkilledHere]

According to Conn Loyalist, #4½ Bore Large Bore Symphony with Piston valve to F & E made between 1920 and 1923. So yeah, same bore as 8H.

Thank you! It seems this horn was produced after the year 1923 noted. I'll reach out to conn loyalist once the horn is back to fully functioning order and ask them more about it.

I think I saw that horn! I was curious about it but didn't bid. So that piston valve is not a modification? It's original to the horn design? That's wild.

haha yea it was on Goodwill! no the piston is not a mod. it's original. The rotor version of this same horn is the 66H. I know several different horns of the time period used pistons. The ergonomics don't seem bad either actually. Albeit the slide and bell are friction fit rather than screw-locked together like modern horns. From what I can see, this design actually should play as open and unrestricted as a straight horn when the piston is not depressed. I'm not entirely sure how it'll feel with the piston depressed though.

[Tbarh]

Looks very much like an early 88H., I am very interested to know the size of the bell throat.. I have a 1920 early 8H (actually named « Symphony -large») which have a significantly larger bell taper..How does this one compare to a modern 88H?

[NotSkilledHere]

Looks very much like an early 88H., I am very interested to know the size of the bell throat.. I have a 1920 early 8H (actually named « Symphony -large») which have a significantly larger bell taper..How does this one compare to a modern 88H?

Unfortunately, I neither have the tools on hand to measure the throat (or at a height agreed to as the measurement point for the throat) nor an elkhart or modern 88h on hand to compare it to. However, I do wish to obtain a good example of an elkhart 88h in the future so I'll do my best to remember to come back and do a comparison for you at such a time.

[funkhoss]

I'm the person who had the 12H for sale (click for ad) several years ago. It's now in the personal collection of Noah Gladstone.

My 12H had a bell with a larger throat than a modern 88H, though it was still 8.5" in diameter. The bell rim was soldered, unlike the 88H.

The slide was wide, like a Bach slide, rather than the width of an 88H slide. I think this was to give more clearance around the face with the piston valve. It was a straight .547" bore. The F-attachment tubing was .562".

The Conn trombone piston valve is a fascinating design. In the "open" position the bore goes straight through the valve, without any bends or bumps. In this regard, it's a similar concept to the Shires Tru-Bore valve.

Mine had the original Conn-Kenfield mouthpiece, which has a "Remington" shank (though that shank size and taper obviously predates Remington's involvement by many decades). Modern large-shank mouthpieces didn't fit properly. I had Doug Elliott make me a few "Conn" shanks, which worked great.

Yes, the F-attachment wrap on mine was "flatter," and contained inside the bell. I think this is because a TIS trombone doesn't need the additional brace on the tuning slide and and the one connecting the neckpipe and bell that a tuning in bell instrument does. The 12H F-attachment tubing actually had fewer bends than this one does.

I'm tall (6' 3") with fairly large hands, and it seemed to me that the piston valve was designed for someone with much smaller hands than mine in mind. However, when I used a Neotech grip with mine, which moved my hand out away from the valve, the ergonomics were actually quite comfortable.

I hope this is helpful information. Please let me know if you have any additional questions!

[NotSkilledHere]

Thank you! My horn also came with a beat up Conn-Kenfield mouthpiece! I shall have to look into remmington and conn shank mouthpieces!