The problem with large mouthpieces

[Tboorer]

I’ve been playing on Griego 3 Alessi series mouthpieces for years now, which in the UK are considered large as they’re about the same rim size as Bach 3G. Recently I made a darker more centred sound when, on a whim, I tried a bach 4 corp. on a conn 88HCL trombone. However, the trigger register needs more work than before. Has anyone else gone through this and should I stick with the smaller 4 size, especially as the sound seems warmer?

[BGuttman]

The trigger register should be more responsive with a larger mouthpiece. Downside is if the cup is too large the notes above the bass staff get flat.

It's hard to answer your question directly, though.

A smaller rim on a deeper cup helps the lower register. This is the philosophy of the Helleberg mouthpiece popular with tuba players. A deeper cup with the 4G rim might be just the ticket. You might want to look at a Wick 4BL or 4AL. If you go Doug Elliott, a 102 rim with a G or H cup is a "large" 4G.

If you want the larger 3 size rim but want better high register, a shallow cup might help. A Doug Elliott 104 rim with an E cup might do this.

[ithinknot]

Maybe, or maybe what you really want is something retaining the 3 rim size, but a bit more efficient/focused than the Alessis.

Saw your profile - you're probably not a million miles from me, and you'd be welcome to try out a Doug Elliott setup in that sort of world... 3ish rim on a Bach Gish cup (I have the E cup Bruce mentions too, but coming from the Alessis that's probably brighter than you're looking for). Send me a PM if you want.

[harrisonreed]

For me, the rim size / cup width is independent from the cup depth and throat/backbore.

There is an ideal cup width for your face and the general total range you need to play. There are ideal cup depths and throat/backbores for specific types of playing, specific registers, etc.

I think of the two as separate things.

[hornbuilder]

Choose the cup/rim diameter to suit your face. Choose the cup depth/shape, and throat/backbore to suit the horn/playing.

[Burgerbob]

Which 3 series are you playing? You may just need a deeper one.

[pjanda1]

There are a ton of variables here.

In my limited experience, Alessi mouthpieces feel and play in a particular way. I've messed with all sorts of stuff, and I don't sound good on any that I've tried. Separately, the rim shape is different from other things, and there is a decent chance that it will feel even wider than it actually is. And at least from what I'm seeing, the Griego Alessi 3 is going to actually be a good bit wider in cup diameter than most things we talk about in 3G terms, even before considering the impact of the rim shape.

I would also expect most 4Gs to be a good bit deeper than an Alessi cup, though I'm not familiar with this particular 'piece. 4Gs can vary, but many many tenor players use shallower things that won't sound as objectively dark, even if they also use larger rim sizes. I am one of those using cups that are both shallower and wider than any 4G I've tried. (In fact, something that is a traditional 3G diameter, making it quite a bit smaller than an Alessi 3.)

Basically, to me, those two mouthpieces are entirely different in every way. So different that it would be impossible to play only those two and reach any conclusions about which aspect of which one is right for you.

I concur with Matthew, but with the caveat that the rim contour is an important part of the fit. So, you need to find a cup width and rim shape combo you like. Then explore cup options.

Paul