Modern Conn 3 alternative

[ReynoldsFanboy]

Does anyone have any idea what modern production mouthpieces are similar to the Conn 3? My friend has taken a real liking to my Conn but as they’re pretty rare and I don’t really want to sell mine (as it is my main mouthpiece) so I’ve been looking for an alternative but haven’t been able to find one yet, especially one with a pronounced V cup like the Conn 3.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

[DaveAshley]

I would think it would be very easy to find a Conn 3.

There appear to be 11 on eBay right now.

Do be aware that there are some Conn 3’s that are bigger than others. Most have about a 25mm rim that’s quite wide and flat. Some I’ve come across felt more like 25.5

[Kevbach33]

Check out the 2 piece Warburton models for modern pieces that are similar. They're pretty pricey, but they have a V cup like the Conn 3.

The nice part is they're available in diameters from .95" (15 in their numbering) up to 1.03" (7), so you don't have to be locked in to one diameter. According to Doug's comparison chart, in general the 11 (.99") should be about right inside. The Warburton rim is rounded with a defined inner bite. It's quite comfy to me.

The D cup I think should be closest in depth (or choose the shallower M cup for a brighter sound; S is for alto). All tops have a .250" throat.

Then you can choose a shank to suit your preference/the horn (1-6, plus "*" versions that are more open than their normal equivalents). I don't know what backbore would be closest to that of a 3.

Good luck in your (friend's) search.

[Posaunus]

I would think it would be very easy to find a Conn 3.

There appear to be 11 on eBay right now.

Do be aware that there are some Conn 3’s that are bigger than others. Most have about a 25mm rim that’s quite wide and flat. Some I’ve come across felt more like 25.5

I've had a few Conn 3 mouthpieces. (They seem to mate well with some "vintage" Conn trombones from the 1930s to 1960s.) They vary a little, but typically measure close to ~25.35mm (0.998") Cup I.D / 6.35mm (0.250") Throat. Their cups are indeed quite V-shaped.

[WilliamLang]

Ferguson and Bousfield mouthpieces will have a similar feel. I've also found the Greigo-Oft line to feel very similar to V-cups from a personal standpoint.

[chromebone]

Conn 3’s are plentiful, they’re the loose change in your couch of the mouthpiece world. They were the mouthpiece Conn included with just about most of their small bore and student horns for years. Probably every Director made for close to 40 years came with one. Really no need to find a modern equivalent. If that’s what you like, just find one you like and play it.

[OneTon]

Stork has new, v shaped mouthpieces. They are friendly and easy to talk to. It will probably be a T1, T2, or T3 if you want to look at their web site.

[Posaunus]

Stork has new, v shaped mouthpieces. They are friendly and easy to talk to.

Are Stork mouthpieces (which are very nice, by the way) more "modern" than a Conn 3 (which I also like)?
What is it that makes a mouthpiece "old-fashioned" or "modern?"
Cup shape? Rim? Backbore? Exterior profile? Manufacurer's name? Signature endorser?

[OneTon]

There is a lady at Stork that can answer any questions you have regarding the differences and actual details. Go to their web site and set up an appointment. Doug Elliott may be able to tell you what is new under the sun, if anything. I only meant that a Stork mouthpiece can be purchased as new as opposed to used and abused. I don’t know if people monkey with old Conn mouthpieces like they do everything else. Americans like to Hot Rod. One Mount Vernon 11C that was given to me is dynamite and another, again given to me, is a dog. Maybe a machinist attempted to sharpen a cutter instead of using a new one. Competition has improved quality control as well. I have heard someone sound quite good on an 88H with the Conn mouthpiece that it was supplied with. Alistair Kay told me all of the mouthpieces that I was using in a 697Z were good. Al and Ian McDougall both said that the ones that I was trying were based on the Bach 11C. If Conn is what you like, talk to the lady at Stork.

[Doug Elliott]

My first mouthpiece when I was 8 years old was a Conn 3, on an Olds Recording.
I think the closest thing I make to that now is an ST 99 rim with a D cup and D2 or D3 shank depending on.the horn. The ST series with its smaller diameter interface becomes more V shaped. Maybe not quite as much as a Conn 3, but close.

If you buy one just don't tell anybody you got an ST D from me.

[OneTon]

There is a cure for that now. The Blue Angels were flying over my house from noon to 4:00 today, sometimes with afterburners on and always about 400-500 feet off the deck. “Things Ain’t What They Used to Be.”

[Posaunus]

Stork has new, v shaped mouthpieces. They are friendly and easy to talk to.

Are Stork mouthpieces (which are very nice, by the way) more "modern" than a Conn 3 (which I also like)?
What is it that makes a mouthpiece "old-fashioned" or "modern?"
Cup shape? Rim? Backbore? Exterior profile? Manufacturer's name? Signature endorser? Marketing? Word of mouth?

[OneTon]

Mouthpiece history is above my pay grade. I got a T2 out last night. The initial diameter near the rim is comparable to a Bach 11C. The rim is more narrow than the 11C. It might be in the neighborhood of a Bach 7C. I would not be surprised if the T3 has an initial diameter closer to a Bach 12C. The Bach 11C rim cross section is in between an Olds 3 or Schilke 47, and the T2. The T2 and Olds 3 appear to be more cone or funnel shaped. The Schilke 47, Olds 3, and Bach 12C have similar initial diameters. I don’t have a Conn 3 to compare anything to. If you want minimum bore I have a full round hole gauge and Swiss micrometer. But it might take a little while. Some of that stuff is on the Stork description and you might find some on the Mouthpiece Express site. I can’t measure cup or backbore tapers. I don’t remember the T2 rim inflicting pain but it is pretty narrow.

[BGuttman]

My Conn 3 and Conn 2 mouthpieces had much wider rims than my Bach 12C. I did find I could play the Conn 3 while I found the 12C too small. For reference, I play larger mouthpieces like Bach 4C and Wick 4BS (and Elliott 102 rims).

[Posaunus]

My Conn 3 and Conn 2 mouthpieces had much wider rims than my Bach 12C. I did find I could play the Conn 3 while I found the 12C too small.

Conn 3 mouthpieces are definitely much larger than your typical Bach 12C. The ones I have played vary a little, but typically measure close to ~25.35mm (0.998") Cup I.D / 6.35mm (0.250") Throat. [Bach 12C: 24.50mm (0.965") / 5.85mm (0.230"), medium-shallow bowl cup.]  Conn 3 cups are quite V-shaped - and deeper - compared to a Bach. And Rims are wider. Different animals.

Conn 3 mouthpieces are not rare. And they can usually be acquired for a reasonable price. But I guess they are not "modern."

[Reedman1]

I have been playing on a Conn 3, which overall works very well for me on my Butler JJ (.508). I find it comfortable, and I can play throughout my entire range with pretty consistent tone and intonation. The sound, though, is a bit covered - a little bit like a French horn, as Doug Elliott might say. So I’m looking for something that gives me a somewhat brighter timbre. As part of my search, I’m trying a Stork T1 light, with a standard shank. It’s got a narrower rim, but isn’t uncomfortable, and the timbre is brighter than the Conn; the aperture is slightly larger than the Conn 3. But I asked a couple of friends for feedback in a back-to-back comparison, and they really preferred the Conn. Obviously, what works for one person may not work for another.
Other alternatives include the Yamaha Nils Landgren, if you can tolerate the rim, and the Schilke Alex Iles signature model. I haven’t tried Doug Elliott’s .99 / D / D2 or similar setup, but it would probably work well.

[DaveAshley]

I think the rims of the Conn 3 and Schilke 47 feel very similar. The 47 has more of a C cup, so one might find it produces a brighter sound. Depends on the player, of course. Seems to work that way for Trombone Shorty.

[Posaunus]

Mouthpiece ....... Rim I.D. (mm/in) ..... Throat (mm/in) ..... Cup Type
Conn 3 ............... 25.35 / 0.998" ......... 6.35 / 0.250" ....... V-Type
Schilke 47 ........... 24.99 / 0.984 .......... 5.95 / 0.234" ....... Medium Bowl
Bach 6¾C ........... 25.00 / 0.984" ......... 5.85 / 0.230" ....... Medium-Shallow Bowl
Stork Custom T1 ... 25.22 / 0.993" ......... 6.63 / 0.261"........ V-Shaped

Note that the Conn 3 has a larger throat than many small-shank mouthpieces.
And the Stork T1 even larger.
Important?

To me, they all play differently!

[tim]

I've been using a Conn 3B when I'm not trying out the Loud. Two very different mouthpieces. I've got a box full of pieces I've donated to the local high school including some very high end stuff. Anyway I tend to like the v cup of the Conn better the the Loud. I have a favorite Stork that I use on specific occasions but the daily driver has been the Conn that was supplied with the 62h.

[Posaunus]

Lest this thread be diverted, the original question was about alternatives to the small-shank Conn 3 mouthpiece, originally designed in the ~1930s (?) and apparently supplied with most small-bore Conn trombones until at least the late 1960s.

The Conn 3B is a bass trombone mouthpiece, probably introduced in the ~1960s. It has a "Remington taper" large shank, matched to the Conn bass trombones of the time (60H, 62H, 71H, 73H). Completely different from the small-shank Conn3, and irrelevant to this discussion.