Finding the sweet spot on new horns quickly

[Burgerbob]

Been thinking and practicing this a lot lately... May help some people doubling.

[chouston3]

I just tried this and found it very illuminating.

I found centered and resonant notes and a sound with more overtones.

This is different from how I usually play and it is going to take some work to play in the sweet spot all the time.

[imsevimse]

Yes, I do agree with your conclusion on what the sweet spot is and how to find it, at least what is needed to do in the beginning if you are not that used to change often and not used to always strive for the sweet spot as a sensation as you are playing. I do change all the time and I have not much time to transit. It needs to work in an instant or at most in a couple of minutes. It is important to quickly find the sweet spot which is just one of the things, or as I put it "how the horn wants to be played". It includes the feel and to find the sound on the particular horn, and the intonation tendencies and could also include the angle how you put your horn together to be able to hold it without stress and the grip on the slide since there are heavy slides, TIS-slides, lightweight slides, "longer" slides and of course old and worn slides etc. You need to fast analyze because everything is connected. You then need to take some actions and be more conscious on certain qualities if you want that horn - slide vibrato on a heavy slide for example might need a different grip to be able to work satisfactorily. Some positions need to be longer or shorter compared to the "other horn" you are coming from if you want to find the "sweet spot" for the note on a given position as well as to also be able to play that note in tune. I agree that "the sweet spot" here is what's most important to find first, after this you move the slide to know how this horn needs to be adjusted to also play in tune. Like you said in the beginning you can advance the horn in two different ways (that both work). You could expect it to be colored by you, so you just play it like you play any other horn and you make it sound "like you". My belief is you will find many horns are bad because they are just too different from what you are used to play, which is your old horn. Or you go the other route and adopt to the horn. If you do, you will then discover some new sensations like a new different but still good sound. To get there you need to find the sweet spot and adopt. Your video is about a subject I've worked at since I first decided I wanted to learn to play any mouthpiece and after this even more when I became a collector 10 years ago. Before that adoption was more to transit between bass, tenor and alto and their different mouthpieces. It was the same principle but is just more fine grained when it comes to more close adoptions. My recent adoptions is about trumpet, cornet, flugelhorn, french horn and tuba. On those instrument those subtle things are probably the same on different brands, but I'm still learning basics there, and it doesn't make much sense to play different brands and seek differences between them at this stage. I go for Yamaha on all but the Conn 8D french horn. I get exhausted real fast if I miss the sweet spot on any of those. A couple of notes too much off the sweet spot and I'm lost and what comes next becomes very hard. It's like playing tennis and when the ball hits the wood or off center and not hit the most effective spot on the bat. The force goes back into the arm and you feel pain and the ball goes in any direction except were intended. This is to me the same thing as to be playing off the sweet spot. A different bat give a different grip, a different material give a different response but on any bat there is a sweet spot. You need to adopt you're use to that bat and where you're hit the ball to find it. A professional tennis player probably use the same type of bat all the time because he wants the same result all the time and do not want a new sensation each time he is playing, the same with a fully employed professional trombone player at the highest level that competes with the best in the world for the next job, but that's where we are very different, because that new sensation is exactly what I want when I play my trombone, I want a new sensation and another sound when I change my gear. I'm not a fully employed pro trombonist who can not afford a mistake and I'm not a tennis-player either, but i have played tennis enough in my youth to at least discover those things I refer to with a bat. It isn't as obvious in what we are doing when we play trombone, but to me a good metaphor.

/Tom

[peteedwards]

One thing I learned from a teacher long ago is when warming up on long tones, taper in & out of a nice & slow WIDE lip vibrato, as wide as you can make it without changing partials. This really helps find the center of the resonant pitch on any given note, and is a great chop building exercise.

[harrisonreed]

Step one ... Attach a magnetic counterweight or otherwise add weight to the bell.

I joke. I joke. But ...

It's interesting, on your first F on the bass trombone, you can hear the initial pitch, and your tongue is a bit too low, very similar to the tenor you had just been playing which also seemed a bit wide to me. Within a few attacks of that F, the upper overtones come in, and I can hear the tongue raising up and taking up more of the real estate. Then it has some nice sparkle. I really liked the sound and the approach to getting it on the "unfamiliar" bass. On some of the gliss exercises the slotting and core of the sound is exactly what you want to get, and quickly, when you're trying to get used to a new horn.

On tenor, your sound seemed like your tongue was a lot lower overall. I liked that you talked about having some sparkle and upper overtones in your bass sound, which I agree 100% with, and for large tenor I think that is doubly important. Listen to the first phrase you play on tenor next to your initial F's on the bass and the other bass exercises -- the tenor sound is more "bass" sounding than the bass. Very very wide. I don't think you actually hit the sweet spot on that tenor, at least not in this video.

For me, as far as finding the sweet spot goes, it comes down to being probably 90% the position and curve of the tongue for the register and, really, the exact pitch I'm playing. And the rest is maybe 10% mental effort on air or chops. That's how much of an influence tongue shape has on everything. It gets to the point where you can dictate your chops and air just by setting the tongue.

You have a lot of great insight and your videos are always interesting, Aiden. I can see that you're a great teacher. This topic is something that I think a lot of players, young and old, should be focusing on. Kudos!

[Burgerbob]

On tenor, your sound seemed like your tongue was a lot lower overall. I liked that you talked about having some sparkle and upper overtones in your bass sound, which I agree 100% with, and for large tenor I think that is doubly important. Listen to the first phrase you play on tenor next to your initial F's on the bass and the other bass exercises -- the tenor sound is more "bass" sounding than the bass. Very very wide. I don't think you actually hit the sweet spot on that tenor, at least not in this video.

Yup, I wasn't happy with it either, even after a couple takes...probably should have just used my DE piece.

[harrisonreed]

But all that to say, awesome sound, awesome demonstration on the bass. What horn is that, btw?

[Burgerbob]

But all that to say, awesome sound, awesome demonstration on the bass. What horn is that, btw?

B&S MS14 Meistersinger Sarastro, or my Thein Light

[Bach5G]

Interesting. I’ve been doing a few of these things over the past number of months. Trying to make things sound easy and striving for maximum resonance. “Sweet spot” is a good way of describing it.

[Wilco]

I just tried this and found it very illuminating.

I found centered and resonant notes and a sound with more overtones.

This is different from how I usually play and it is going to take some work to play in the sweet spot all the time.

Thanks! Made todays practice session a lot better very nice

[Wilco]

Other things, I hit much more accurately the notes. And general pitch level has gone sharper…. At least for now…. What I like is that once you know what to aim for it’s easy to consistently keep at the same level of playing.