Tuning note

[Kessinger]

when tuning in a band which Bb do yall usually play?

[CalgaryTbone]

Middle B flat (just above the bass clef).

JS

[Pezza]

Bb above bass clef on tenor. 1 below that on bass

[JohnL]

Bb at the top of the bass clef staff is the standard.


If you're playing bass trombone and are expecting to play a lot of low stuff, tuning the the second line Bb isn't a bad idea.

Hopefully, both notes will be pretty close to being in tune with the tuning slide in the same position, but that's not always the case.

[harrisonreed]

Key of Bb

[ghmerrill]

If you're playing bass trombone and are expecting to play a lot of low stuff, ...

I really play only independent bass. I have at least four tuning notes because there are basically four horns. When I check my "basic" tuning, this ends up being about eight notes. But once the horn is "set up" like that (for a given mouthpiece/leadpipe) I rarely check it with a tuner. I MAY have to change things in extreme temperature conditions. I MAY have to adjust to the tuning of an ensemble I'm in. But it ain't like tuning a tuba.

I've played with several tenor (with or without valve) players who never actually "tune the horn". They just slam the tuning slide into one position (usually fully closed) and go from there and "tune their playing".

If the question is really "When the community band conductor says: play a Bb" in order to tune the band, I go along with that by playing the one in the staff. It's interesting that in the community bands I've played in over the past ten or more years, virtually everyone has a tuner on the stand and is eyeing it during the entire rehearsal. In the jazz band I recently joined, there's no tuner in sight. And we don't do "tuning notes".

[Sesquitone]

Bb at the top of the bass clef staff is the standard.


If you're playing bass trombone and are expecting to play a lot of low stuff, tuning the the second line Bb isn't a bad idea.

Hopefully, both notes will be pretty close to being in tune with the tuning slide in the same position, but that's not always the case.

When writing (or, especially, speaking) about notes in different octaves, it's probably a good idea to use Scientific Pitch Notation, which is recognised world-wide. [This is much more "efficient" (and easy to remember) than Helmholtz notation—which, unfortunately, is still used by the ITA Journal.] Sometimes subscripts are used for the octave number (as in the text below). Sometimes the octave number is on-the-line to the right of the note name, without space between (as in the staff notation).

Octave-located pitches such as these are distinguished from a pitch in any octave, designated by a note name without the octave number. In music theory, the latter is called a "pitch class".

So, for both tenor and bass trombone (in band), tune to Bb3; check Bb2 and Bb4. I would not advise student bass trombonists to tune to Bb2—because this second harmonic is somewhat less "centred" than the fourth and eighth harmonics.

Of course, in orchestra, we "tune" to A—along with everyone else. In which case, you really have to be "sure" about where your second position is.


.

[harrisonreed]

When writing (or, especially, speaking) about notes in different octaves, it's probably a good idea to use Scientific Pitch Notation, which is recognised world-wide. [This is much more "efficient" (and easy to remember) than Helmholtz notation—which, unfortunately, is still used by the ITA Journal.]

True, but the poster you quoted used actual notated music with a clef, so ... Isn't that even more precise since a larger percentage of musicians understand what it means over numbered notes?

So, for both tenor and bass trombone (in band), tune to Bb3; check Bb2 and Bb4. I would not advise student bass trombonists to tune to Bb2—because this second harmonic is somewhat less "centred" than the fourth and eighth harmonics.

Of course, in orchestra, we "tune" to A—along with everyone else. In which case, you really have to be "sure" about where your second position is.

I disagree, especially for bass. I don't think you can make a blanket statement that a certain partial is less centered. Especially considering that most bass trombonists are playing mouthpieces that are far too large and often make those higher octaves more difficult to center. In other words, not centering Bb2 is indicative of poor mechanics, and not many average joe bass players sound very good on those upper octaves with their bathtubs, erm, mouthpieces.

As for tuning to A, it's as arbitrary as tuning to Bb. Neither note has a position that is defined on the slide, not in the same way that the second valve on a trumpet defines their A, at least. "Tuning" either note is an exercise in determining how close or far away you want those notes to your face, and by side effect, how wonky you want your horn to play if you choose to pull the tuning slide way out.

[Doug Elliott]

...most bass trombonists are playing mouthpieces that are far too large and often make those higher octaves more difficult to center. In other words, not centering Bb2 is indicative of poor mechanics

The reason Bb3 is harder to center is from starting on Bb2, not because the mouthpiece is too big. Too many bass trombone (students) think Bb2 is "middle Bb" when it's not.

[harrisonreed]

...most bass trombonists are playing mouthpieces that are far too large and often make those higher octaves more difficult to center. In other words, not centering Bb2 is indicative of poor mechanics

The reason Bb3 is harder to center is from starting on Bb2, not because the mouthpiece is too big. Too many bass trombone (students) think Bb2 is "middle Bb" when it's not.

There is probably truth in both sentiments. I agree that the bass sans valves has the same range as tenor, on paper. F in the staff is probably the actual middle note on both instruments, range wise.

You really don't think that a lot of bass players sounding bad in the middle and upper register isn't at least somewhat because a lot of them are on 0Gs and Schilke 60s as students?

[Doug Elliott]

Sometimes that's a good size.
But when you combine a big mouthpiece with total obsession on the bottom of the horn, it's going to result in no focus in the midrange or above.
Bb3 should be considered a good starting point on either tenor or bass. Then modify as needed, higher on tenor and lower on bass.

[CalgaryTbone]

Sometimes that's a good size.
But when you combine a big mouthpiece with total obsession on the bottom of the horn, it's going to result in no focus in the midrange or above.
Bb3 should be considered a good starting point on either tenor or bass. Then modify as needed, higher on tenor and lower on bass.

Yes!!!

[tbdana]

I agree with what Doug said, on all counts.

But it's really all academic, because -- and this is going to sound reductive but it's not -- all you have to do is play in tune. You don't have to play any tuning note at all. We play a giant tuning slide. There's no big secret to playing in tune. It's not hard. You just have to pay attention and do it. Symphony trombonists who tune on an A prove that every time they play. Tune on whatever note you want, or don't tune at all as there is really no need. Just play the eff in tune. It's not rocket surgery, and you play the best brass instrument in the world for playing in tune. What was that old Nike slogan, again?

[ghmerrill]

But when you combine a big mouthpiece with total obsession on the bottom of the horn, it's going to result in no focus in the midrange or above.

This is a point that Oystein Baadsvik continually makes regarding tuba players and mouthpieces in his master classes.

[peteedwards]

I agree with what Dana said, on all counts.
There should be no tuning slide on the trombone. The tuning slide is in your right hand (or left if you are Slide Hampton)

[CalgaryTbone]

I think this is an issue where two things can be true at once. Placing the tuning slide in an appropriate place so that your "default" slide placement for the notes can be consistent is important, and, using your ears to be able to adjust for all circumstances that come up in performance is also a must.

If you don't start from a place where you have a strong sense of where the slide should land, you will always be adjusting be in tune, and seldom landing in tune on the attack. By all means, adjust whenever necessary, but I know that in an orchestra, much of the job involves having a beautifully in-tune chord from the trombones from the start of the note.

Last night, we played our season opener here - Carmina Burana. There was plenty of adjusting for mutes, and for fitting with the choir or other sections of the orchestra. I listen in rehearsals to be sure that I'm aware of those moments, and that I have a new "default" plan for slide placement for those instances to make it more likely that the attack is in tune in those moments. If not, adjust quickly.

Jim Scott

[Posaunus]

I think this is an issue where two things can be true at once. Placing the tuning slide in an appropriate place so that your "default" slide placement for the notes can be consistent is important, and, using your ears to be able to adjust for all circumstances that come up in performance is also a must.

If you don't start from a place where you have a strong sense of where the slide should land, you will always be adjusting be in tune, and seldom landing in tune on the attack. By all means, adjust whenever necessary, but I know that in an orchestra, much of the job involves having a beautifully in-tune chord from the trombones from the start of the note.