Developing ensemble skills

[chouston3]

What do you do in your ensembles to make sure that your playing fits in with the rest of the players?

What do you listen for?

What do you look for?

Do you do preparation work with your music ahead of time?

Do you discuss concept of sound with your section or other ensemble members?

[tbdana]

I try to match the lead/principal player as precisely as possible. If I'm on first, I try to match the trumpet or whatever other instrument I'm most closely aligned with.

I listen for what my lead is doing in terms of TIME, volume, attack, and interpretation.

I don't look for a damn thing. I just use my ears, brain, and musicality.

Nope, I never look at the music ahead of time. I'm lazy, and I'm confident I can play anything they put in front of me. I have way more stuff to practice than whatever is going to be on the stand when I get there. Frankly, if I have to practice it before I get there, that means to me that I'm not good enough to be in that situation. Practice at the edges of your ability, but perform from the center of it. If the music on the stand is at the edge of my ability, I need to go home and practice until it's in the center.

Again, nope. I just listen to him/her/them and blend. And you don't have to have the same sound to blend.

[baileyman]

Get in a band with the best lead you can find and listen hard. Copy everything. And play up to the lead. Every note written is supposed to be heard--no hiding the inside voices.

[hyperbolica]

Listen for time, relative volume and intonation, obviously, but also articulation and sound quality as much as you can. Watch for body language to get entrances and breathing together.

You should always look over your music beforehand if you have the option. At least look at roadmap type issues, clef changes, little notes like "2Xo" or for mutes or things that might require some set up. With some kinds of music, I like to look for errors as well. You never know.

As a young player, it took a long time for me to actually realize that ensemble playing was at least as hard as all the stuff you do for solos in the practice room. When I was mostly caught up in making sure I got my own stuff right, it was difficult to get the ensemble stuff right as well. You've got to know how to play your part flawlessly before you can fit it into what everyone else is doing.

This can be harder to do in larger groups, because there are multiple centers to listen to, but it's good to start with your own section, and then the group as a whole.

This is also why I like playing in small groups. I think private teachers should get students started in duets as early as possible. Listening teaches a lot more than talking or just doing it again. My playing improved a lot after I started playing with quartets and quintets.

[harrisonreed]

Nope, I never look at the music ahead of time. I'm lazy, and I'm confident I can play anything they put in front of me.

"Oh, Dana here's the music for tomorrow's concert -- Alessi got sick but we know you can sight read anything!"

20241010_120917.jpg

[Kbiggs]

Nope, I never look at the music ahead of time. I'm lazy, and I'm confident I can play anything they put in front of me.

"Oh, Dana here's the music for tomorrow's concert -- Alessi got sick but we know you can sight read anything!"

20241010_120917.jpg

Holy Shifting Meter Studies Batman!!! Where’s St. Ostrander when you need him?!?

[GabrielRice]

Play chamber music.

The single most important thing I did for my professional skills while I was in school was play in a trombone quartet that we took VERY seriously. We often rehearsed more hours in a week than any of us practiced individually, and we were relentless about intonation, blend, balance, phrasing as a group, etc., etc. We performed as often as we could as well, booking tours and performances wherever anybody would listen. And sometimes where they were just walking by and not listening at all.

[Matt K]

Wow what piece is that Harrison???

[tbdana]

Nope, I never look at the music ahead of time. I'm lazy, and I'm confident I can play anything they put in front of me.

"Oh, Dana here's the music for tomorrow's concert -- Alessi got sick but we know you can sight read anything!"

20241010_120917.jpg

LOL! No worries, I got it. The hardest part isn't the time changes, it's going back and forth between the low C and high C# in the second to last line. But if he's still alive, the composer does need to have his throat slit and be hung on a pole at the entrance to the concert hall.

[harrisonreed]

Rouse Trombone Concerto (in memoriam Leonard Bernstein), mvtII

I'd argue the time changes are the hardest part, at least for me. Last time I heard the piece played live the orchestra said they used the midi click track to play along with to learn the piece.

[Posaunus]

"Oh, Dana here's the music for tomorrow's concert -- Alessi got sick but we know you can sight read anything!"

Normally I'd be happy to fill in for Joe tomorrow, but my valve is sticking and I need to get it to a tech.

[Posaunus]

... if he's still alive, the composer does need to have his throat slit and be hung on a pole at the entrance to the concert hall.

The esteemed composer, Christopher Rouse (Pulitzer Prize winner, composer-in-residence for the New York Philharmonic, Grammy award, ...) passed away (cancer) at age 70 in 2019. R.I.P. Chris.

[tbdana]

The esteemed composer, Christopher Rouse (Pulitzer Prize winner, composer-in-residence for the New York Philharmonic, Grammy award, ...) passed away (cancer) at age 70 in 2019. R.I.P. Chris.

Probably because of writing this piece. Let that be a warning to us all.

[Savio]

Nope, I never look at the music ahead of time. I'm lazy, and I'm confident I can play anything they put in front of me.

"Oh, Dana here's the music for tomorrow's concert -- Alessi got sick but we know you can sight read anything!"

20241010_120917.jpg

My God, somebody actually play this? Alessi? Need an advanced metronome to practice this. I think I stand by my simple ballads.

Leif

[harrisonreed]

"Oh, Dana here's the music for tomorrow's concert -- Alessi got sick but we know you can sight read anything!"

20241010_120917.jpg

My God, somebody actually play this? Alessi? Need an advanced metronome to practice this. I think I stand by my simple ballads.

Leif

My joke is off topic at this point, but yeah. I've heard Alessi play it live, and he said his student was playing it with a different orchestra the same weekend. It was written for Alessi and the NY Phil in 1991, and Joe absolutely nails it. But of course ... Lindberg adds a certain excitement to it that I haven't heard other performers really pull off, and I heard Rouse reached out to him personally to record it once a widespread NY Phil CD release seemed unlikely...




The NY Phil did record it live, but if I recall it was only available as a part of some monster box set that was extremely expensive (and later released as a standalone years later, below). Alessi's also recorded it again relatively recently. Interesting to hear the change in his sound over the span of 15 years or so, what a musician!

[Savio]

Thanks for sharing Harrisonreed! It sounds more logical or with a musical meaning when listening this two eminent players. It nearly sounds it's easy to do! (That was maybe back to the joke side of it from my view . ) But it looks worse or more complicated than it sounds? Still this cant be easy to get it together with an orchestra. Amazing! Thats high end of ensemble playing!

Anyway ensemble playing? I still try to figure it out and like so much to play with others. It's always fun, and it's what we all like and search for. Even if it's just a duet, trio. Ensemble, band, orchestra. I think all is mentioned above. Listening, watching, be prepared. Play with others as much we can. When I think back on my life trying to learn, it's also more about understanding, experience and knowledge. And it takes time, anyway for me. Knowledge is about style and what ensemble we play in. It makes a difference in what we listen for. The ability to be open and adjust must be there. Musicality or know the style of the music. Know when to be in a leading role or supporting role.

In the end this is just thoughts. The fun is to play with others!

Leif

[VJOFan]

What do I listen for?

In unison or octaves I listen for my sound becoming indistinguishable from the player(s) beside me. There are ways to modify your own sound with mouth shape so it becomes ‘wider’ and can play nice with others or absorb and cover up another player when needed. Volume wise, I pull back slightly for unison and will give more on the bottom of an octave. If I’m on the top I just hope the bottom stays stable so I can tune to it and then try not to stick out too much.

In harmony the volume has to match to the point the chord is ringing and the various individual tone colours aren’t really heard.

What do I look for?
I look for clues to style, articulation and dynamic marks and indications like solo or soli or backgrounds so I’ll be in the ballpark of correct and then only need to make small adjustments of interpretation to be with the other players.

As far as prep for a rehearsal, if the music is provided in advance I’ll study it as much as time allows. When I get music in advance that indicates to me a professional attitude of the group where they expect note perfect at the downbeat and to use the rehearsal to create a musical argument. Even if I can play everything with no sweat, getting familiar with road maps, mute changes and where solos are makes the rehearsal much more relaxing.

Even in the orchestra and it’s my umpteenth time through Tchaik 4, I’ll go through it and probably listen a little it as a courtesy to the other players that are also 100% prepared for the rehearsal downbeat.

[hyperbolica]

"Oh, Dana here's the music for tomorrow's concert -- Alessi got sick but we know you can sight read anything!"

20241010_120917.jpg

It looks a lot tougher than it is. Think of it as shifting groups of 3 and 2 or 3 and 4. Draw a triangle over the 3 and a line over the first beat of 2. If you play it enough, you kind of feel the flow and rhythm. The Marcel Bitsch set of etudes is very much like this. Notated rubato. It seems to speed up and slow down even when you keep the tempo strictly steady.

[AtomicClock]

Play chamber music.

It always struck me odd that I get solo (and fundamentals) instruction in private lessons, but no one-on-one instruction in ensemble skills. Until I was coached in a brass quintet. I distinctly remember the time the coach ran over and yelled in my ear "you just stepped on her solo". I knew exactly what he meant, because the moment was still in my head. If he waited until we stopped, the advice would have gone in one ear and out the other, just like everything every band director ever said. It really changed my perspective on how to listen while playing.

Another few hundred lightbulb moments like that, and maybe I could make a career out of it!

[BrassSection]

I’ve put a couple together with the drummer from our weekly band that is also a tuba guy and band director, who has also done some arranging for us. We do it for fun, I’ve played trumpet in several and he usually plays tuba. One time I took tuba and he took trumpet for fun and stretching ourselves. Use other church and family members as available. We always just stick to just brass, grandson on trumpet or euph, daughter usually French horn, me whatever is necessary, usually trumpet or trombone and we try to use any other trombone players we can scare up…usually they get scared off.

Favorites are low brass only groups. Tuba, 2 euphs, and a French horn or two. This really works nice Christmas Eve on O Holy Night. Usually groups are a mixture of high school ability or higher, assign parts as best as possible. Goal is to blend well and have each player take some lead when possible. Have a couple of practices, usually turns out well.

Made non-brass exception, did a piano and euph duet once with daughter by request.