Damaged lacquer maintenance?

[iranzi]

I have a non-transparent lacquer on my 3B. Most likely it’s not original, probably relacquered at a later date. I don’t know whether it was done by the manufacturer by other specialist or someone just diy’d it. Don’t know what kind of lacquer but it’s very well applied according to the shop that sold it to me and it does seems really well applied.
There are several small-ish areas where bits of lacquer came off and a few small scartches.

I was wondering if something could be applied to the scratches and to lacquer edges around bald spots in order to prevent further peeling?
(although i don’t know how lacquer peels — does it start with a small scratch and then peels further around that initial area? Or it comes off in various places due to contact and accidental damage and don’t peel further. Unless more contact/damage in the same area?)

Spot lacquering would be another option (& I’d have to match the color). But is there a way of doing it neatly in diy conditions?

Or best to just leave it be?

Screenshot 2024-11-03 at 02.48.24.png

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This is a quote from another thread viewtopic.php?t=33910
(i hope this is ok?)

Would NF-76 Nu Finish or Renaissance Micro-Crystalline Wax Polish be worth trying?

Have you looked at the Wikipedia page on micro-crystalline waxes? It's really pretty interesting and mentions Renaissance Wax. I particularly like the application of it to hockey sticks -- using the old sticky cloth electrical tape was less than ideal.

Another thing you might look at is Nu Finish. I've used this successfully in a variety of circumstances, though not on bare metal (usually on plastic or lacquer). Its use and effects are somewhat controversial. It's not a wax, not a polish (not abrasive anyway), and it fills micro-pores and defects of the surface. Some people have used it on bare metal.

https://www.amazon.com/Nu-Finish-Liquid ... r=8-2&th=1
[...]

[ghmerrill]

I don't think Nu Finish would do anything to retard peeling. I doubt that wax would either, but others here should have more insight on that. I suspect that for a peeling situation, you just need to remove the old finish -- or it would just continue to come off underneath anything else you put over it.

[iranzi]

Pelling is probably not the right word. I never saw it peel, it's just missing, i already got it like this and it doesn't seem to have a tendency to peel. I just thought to forestall any possible future peeling should it start happening. All completely speculative.
But your suggestion makes sense. I shouldn't worry about it until there's a good reason to worry.

And also i was wondering if there are things people do to extend lacquer life, as there are some lacquer options people pay extra money for. (not me, this was comparatively cheap)


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Finally had a proper look — yes these 2 bald patches are due to left hand contact. These are the only ones. So definitely not because this laquer has a peeling problem.

[Elow]

Use a blue sharpie and a spray can lacquer like Nikolas. That might work

[iranzi]

Use a blue sharpie and a spray can lacquer like Nikolas. That might work

that's an idea! just afraid to make a mess of it. but could practice spot lacquering elsewhere

[Elow]

You can read a lot of info on here regarding prep work. The sharpie might have some chemicals that mess with the lacquer adhering to the surface. Don’t breathe that stuff in though

[iranzi]

You can read a lot of info on here regarding prep work. The sharpie might have some chemicals that mess with the lacquer adhering to the surface. Don’t breathe that stuff in though

just realised this, i actually work at an art studio so have access to oil paints, acrylic and all the rest of them. Can match the colour — no problem. So don't have to use sharpie.

[ghmerrill]

You don't show us much of the instrument -- only a couple of places. One looks like a narrow scratch on the bell section (these things happen). The others are in an area of high wear that's just more noticeable in your case because of the high contrast with the blue finish -- and is actually "expected" wear. If that's really the extent of it, I wouldn't even attempt to "fix" it -- along the lines of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

[iranzi]

You don't show us much of the instrument -- only a couple of places. One looks like a narrow scratch on the bell section (these things happen). The others are in an area of high wear that's just more noticeable in your case because of the high contrast with the blue finish -- and is actually "expected" wear. If that's really the extent of it, I wouldn't even attempt to "fix" it -- along the lines of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Thank you! I guess i just needed to hear that

[BarryDaniels]

I have been building and repairing guitars for about 50 years and have a lot of experience with repairing lacquer finishes. The edge of the lacquer at the damaged area is sharp and fragile, and it will get snagged on anything that will pull off another chip. In order to stabilize it I do touch ups with a small artist’s brush using fresh lacquer. In your situation, you could either get some nitrocellulose lacquer and mix some colorants to get a good match but these materials may be difficult to source. Anything you mix into the lacquer needs to be compatible.

A simpler solution would be to find some lacquer fingernail polish in a matching color. (Make sure it is lacquer and not the more common enamel fingernail polish.) It would already have a brush in the bottle. Then just apply it carefully to the exposed areas making sure to get the edges of the existing lacquer wetted.

[iranzi]

I have been building and repairing guitars for about 50 years and have a lot of experience with repairing lacquer finishes. The edge of the lacquer at the damaged area is sharp and fragile, and it will get snagged on anything that will pull off another chip. In order to stabilize it I do touch ups with a small artist’s brush using fresh lacquer. In your situation, you could either get some nitrocellulose lacquer and mix some colorants to get a good match but these materials may be difficult to source. Anything you mix into the lacquer needs to be compatible.

A simpler solution would be to find some lacquer fingernail polish in a matching color. (Make sure it is lacquer and not the more common enamel fingernail polish.) It would already have a brush in the bottle. Then just apply it carefully to the exposed areas making sure to get the edges of the existing lacquer wetted.

This is just perfect!!!
Looking forward to getting into all these chemicals! I used to have an old-school analogue photographic darkroom in previous flat, with a stash of all sorts of raw chemicals. Was really hard to dispose of some of the more toxic ones when i was moving out of there, like formaldehyde in powdered form.

But I'll start small and practice with fingernail polish.
It's easier said than done — the lefthanded job looks even worse.
Not a perfect match. But I’m ready now to go unleash some trombone on the world (well, on the cat mostly)

finish2.jpg

[BarryDaniels]

Hey, that’s a pretty good match.

[BrassSection]

Looks to be mighty close in color to the Dykem Blue, called by some old timers as Prussian Blue, that the machinists and mechanics used for precision metal layouts. Primarily they used it on stainless alloys and titanium, not familiar with it on brass, buy it could be a touchup solution for the horn if the color matched.

[iranzi]

Thank you, I will check it out. Dykem Blue
Prussian Blue oil paint we have at the art studio is pretty close too but probably not exact same hue as the dye you mention. Funny how there are very specific colour names used by various industries but the hues are far from exact, often quite a bit of variation between brands.
And this trombone lacquer color is not uniform, slightly redder blue on the tuning slide, colder blue inside bell... Only noticeable if inspected under strong light.

Similar situation with sounds and timbres: there are certain terms musicians and manufacturers use to describe sound character of a horn or a mouthpiece. But they are mostly subjective and not concrete (the tone quality couldn't be reproduced on the basis of such descriptions). The most accurate ones are still very approximate: bright—dark, core—harmonics.
For colour there's Pantone system, any color can be re/created by numbers. As i understand it, no usable system of describing sound exists for us musicians. Spectral analysis is supposed to be precise but still won't give a meaningful sound comparison between e.g. King 2B and a 4B*
I find it really interesting, this area were language fails to do it's job...
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although spectral graphic comparisons of some elements of sound, e.g. of attacks, can be fascinating. But the number of such graphs will increase in near-geometric progression: you'll need readings at different dynamic levels, of different attack types, in different registers, etc... A hundred graphs just to describe a simple aural difference. But if it's done right it could be a useful image of sound.