Being fitted for a trombone...

[Mertelstein]

Hi all

I'm sure this has been done elsewhere, but I just wanted to share my views on how incredible I found it to go for a "trombone fitting". This year has been pretty traumatic on a number of levels, but one of the positives was that I came into enough money to properly "upgrade" my horn. Being based in Europe and from the UK, I had a few options, and tried out Edwards, Shires, Courtois etc. but also booked myself in for a session at the Rath Factory.

It was incredible - I had high expectations, and they were exceeded in every way. The possibility to play for hours in the company of one or two pros who were able to advise on sound, in conjunction with my own feelings of playing, swapping in and out parts until I found a combination I was comfortable really blew my mind. There were two things that amazed me: one was the huge difference the tuning slide made. I genuinely had no idea that swapping that out for different designs, materials etc. would have such a massive effect on how the horn felt, but it was really eye-opening. Same with the leadpipe, obviously. The things that you thought would have a big effect - bell size and material, slide material - seemed almost to have less impact!

The other thing that amazed me was how I ended up on such a different horn to what I've played already and what I had in mind. As someone who has played predominantly on a King Duo Gravis and a Conn 73H, but wanted an independent, I assumed I'd end up with a 9.5 inch bell, single-bore slide, rotary valves and predominantly gold brass. I'm about as far from that as I could imagine - same size bell, but in rose brass; dual bore slide, Hagmanns, short leadpipe. The way the horn played at the end of this was just remarkable. Needless to say I ordered it and it's currently being made up. Thanks to export fees etc, it's also come in cheaper than all the other horns I was looking at.

The overall point of this is to say how amazing the experience was; how brilliant the guys at Rath were; and how your expectations can sometimes be wide of the mark. I know I was lucky to have this opportunity and not everyone can - but I would really recommend having a "trombone fitting" at one of the manufacturers who offer it to anyone who has the finances, time and is in the right location to do this.

[Matt K]

The other thing that amazed me was how I ended up on such a different horn to what I've played already and what I had in mind.

Most of the people I know who help people get fitted have pointed out to me in some capacity, publicly and privately, that the most successful fittings tend to be those who come in with few or no preconceptions about how certain components will behave. I would suspect that a large plurality of people who have the fitting you did end up on at least one thing very different than they thought they would end up liking.

I've never done a fitting (or actually bought a new horn...), but on the preoned market, the things that I've ended up liking have very much surprised me. It's been like doing a fitting over 15 years instead of 1.5 hours.,

[Finetales]

Getting fitted is everything with a modular horn. I was skeptical of how good modular trombones really were until I had a quick Rath fitting at ETW one year (back when it was still called ETW and not ATW). The pre-set modular instruments there played well but didn't impress me, but the bass they put together after swapping parts while hearing me play for a little while was spectacular. I had the same experience with a Shires bass at an ITF years later. I can only imagine how rewarding it is to go to the factory and do it for real.

[tbdana]

That sounds like an awesome experience. I'd love to have a "fitting," but not on Rath. But if Bach and Greenhoe did such things I'd be there on the next plane. How can I find out who does this sort of thing, and then how can I set it up? How did you do it?

[harrisonreed]

I think they do it at Edwards, Shires, and Rath. Basically all the modular horn builders.

They also do it at Bach, Conn, and Yamaha .... If you are a signed artist and they want to make you a signature horn!

[MTbassbone]

I also had a wonderful experience getting "fitted". I went to Edwards in August 2023 for both tenor and bass. I went in with my previous experiences with Edwards trombones but wanted to make sure I was open to try anything. I asked them to not tell me anything about what I was playing on until the very end of the session. I was very happy with the outcome. They even customized a leadpipe for my bass. I bought the bass on the spot and then the tenor a few months later. It was worth every penny.

[WilliamLang]

I had a wonderful couple of fitting sessions at ITF 2022 with Steve Shires. The little tweaks he made to the horn and the amount of feedback I got from him and Wes Hopper really sold me on his company, as I was narrowed down to working with Stephens, Thein, or Yamaha.

[RJMason]

Yeah highly recommend being fitted. I ordered a trombone from a custom maker with the specs I thought would work (same as my main axes) and after a year got the horn and well…it didn’t work. Though the maker generously offered to make new components or visit his shop on the opposite coast I sent the horn back without issue. If I sat with a bunch of components and had no expectations I think things would’ve worked out a lot better. Lesson learned— if I can’t get fitted for a custom horn I won’t order one.

[Matt K]

That sounds like an awesome experience. I'd love to have a "fitting," but not on Rath. But if Bach and Greenhoe did such things I'd be there on the next plane. How can I find out who does this sort of thing, and then how can I set it up? How did you do it?

I want to say Bach actually will do this if you ask them. Schilke (Greenhoe) might as well but I have no knowledge of that.

[NuhJuhKuh]

@OP how long will you have to wait for your horn to get built? Do Rath keep a catalogue of parts they put together, or to they make to order?

Does anyone know how Shires and Edward’s do it/what their lead times are?

[tbdana]

That sounds like an awesome experience. I'd love to have a "fitting," but not on Rath. But if Bach and Greenhoe did such things I'd be there on the next plane. How can I find out who does this sort of thing, and then how can I set it up? How did you do it?

I want to say Bach actually will do this if you ask them. Schilke (Greenhoe) might as well but I have no knowledge of that.

Hypothetically, whom would one ask?

[Matt K]

Greenhoe/Schilke has a contact page: https://www.schilkemusic.com/contact-us/
That also includes a phone number.

For Bach, I'd probably contact a dealer and see if they have a contact. If you search for "Bach Factory Tours" there are some threads on trumpet herald and on the archives here:

viewtopic.php?t=1320

About people who have done tours too. Evidently, they don't have many horns out. I know they definitely used to, though this was something like 40 years ago. I studied with someone who flew out to the factory and hand-picked a slide and bell section (42G!).

[ZacharyThornton]

Bach’s factory is not open for tours now. Even on the ones I attended, there were no horns available to buy. I think you used to be able to schedule a chance to play test some horns. But that isn’t a fitting… just trying some horns. You can get that experience at a dealer.
Edwards: they fit you to a horn and make crazy adjustments to that horn to fit YOU. And you leave with THAT horn
Shires: you get fitted, order, wait, and get a horn with the same specs. But not the same horn.
Greenhoe: they always ship everything they build because everything is presold. They don’t have horns sitting around to try out.

[bassbone1993]

Bach’s factory is not open for tours now. Even on the ones I attended, there were no horns available to buy. I think you used to be able to schedule a chance to play test some horns. But that isn’t a fitting… just trying some horns. You can get that experience at a dealer.
Edwards: they fit you to a horn and make crazy adjustments to that horn to fit YOU. And you leave with THAT horn
Shires: you get fitted, order, wait, and get a horn with the same specs. But not the same horn.
Greenhoe: they always ship everything they build because everything is presold. They don’t have horns sitting around to try out.

It's for this reason that if I'd ever get fitted with a trombone, it'd likely be at Edwards. But that's also because I deeply regret selling my 502, and I'd love a chance to try their axials with the harmonic bridge.

[RJMason]

Greenhoe doesn’t have modular horns. They may have 1 example each of the various models to trial but aren’t doing anything bespoke or overly custom, maybe a gold brass bell or a screw bell here or there.

Was very interested in the Shires fitting but yeah…I want to take the horn I like home right then and there, not wait 14 months for the replication. Edwards piques my curiosity, I don’t think anyone else in America does it like that anymore…

[Mertelstein]

@OP how long will you have to wait for your horn to get built? Do Rath keep a catalogue of parts they put together, or to they make to order?

Does anyone know how Shires and Edward’s do it/what their lead times are?

Hi there. In total it’ll probably be about 6 months (ordered in August, expected in the New Year. They’ve got a very full order book for a small facility! I think in common with the others you get a tour of the factory and workshop and we (my Dad and I) got some time with Mick too. A really, really special experience that makes it worth the wait!

@Dana - I really hope you get the chance to try such a session - would love to hear your thoughts on it!

[TBone66]

Having been "fitted" up at Rath earlier this year I too was surprised by the impact of some of the changes. I thought that maybe if I had a "pro ear" I would notice the changes, but I'm not a pro by any stretch of the imagination. However the changes were very definite, some good, some less so! Ended up with a beautiful sounding (to me at least!) horn. Well worth the effort. As for delivery, I had to wait about 4 months for mine, but, again, worth it.

[timbone]

Back in '99, I got fitted at Edwards for a .508 jazz trombone. It is excellent for what I wanted (still have it) and there was so much to choose from! I ended with the lightest red brass bell, silver plated neck pipe, nickel slide and sterling leadpipe that Christian did some mojo on. I was a Getzen player since elementary school, and into the navy so, gotta love the Getzen family and give them a shout out! I studied with Fred Moe Snyder in the NYC area and he was a Getzen clinician.

[RoscoTrombone]

Hi all

I'm sure this has been done elsewhere, but I just wanted to share my views on how incredible I found it to go for a "trombone fitting". This year has been pretty traumatic on a number of levels, but one of the positives was that I came into enough money to properly "upgrade" my horn. Being based in Europe and from the UK, I had a few options, and tried out Edwards, Shires, Courtois etc. but also booked myself in for a session at the Rath Factory.

It was incredible - I had high expectations, and they were exceeded in every way. The possibility to play for hours in the company of one or two pros who were able to advise on sound, in conjunction with my own feelings of playing, swapping in and out parts until I found a combination I was comfortable really blew my mind. There were two things that amazed me: one was the huge difference the tuning slide made. I genuinely had no idea that swapping that out for different designs, materials etc. would have such a massive effect on how the horn felt, but it was really eye-opening. Same with the leadpipe, obviously. The things that you thought would have a big effect - bell size and material, slide material - seemed almost to have less impact!

The other thing that amazed me was how I ended up on such a different horn to what I've played already and what I had in mind. As someone who has played predominantly on a King Duo Gravis and a Conn 73H, but wanted an independent, I assumed I'd end up with a 9.5 inch bell, single-bore slide, rotary valves and predominantly gold brass. I'm about as far from that as I could imagine - same size bell, but in rose brass; dual bore slide, Hagmanns, short leadpipe. The way the horn played at the end of this was just remarkable. Needless to say I ordered it and it's currently being made up. Thanks to export fees etc, it's also come in cheaper than all the other horns I was looking at.

The overall point of this is to say how amazing the experience was; how brilliant the guys at Rath were; and how your expectations can sometimes be wide of the mark. I know I was lucky to have this opportunity and not everyone can - but I would really recommend having a "trombone fitting" at one of the manufacturers who offer it to anyone who has the finances, time and is in the right location to do this.

I went down to Rath a couple of years ago. I had a preconceived idea of which set up I wanted & then Tim had also set up another one at the opposite end of the spectrum.

After quickly ruling out either of those options, the next few hours were spent swapping parts, listening, feeling, and then finally settling. It was a brilliant experience & Tim is very good at what he does. Even my trumpet playing friend who was with me couldn't believe the difference in sounds as parts changed.

Post some pics when you finally get it.

[SamBTbrn]

Am I the only one who finds it crazy that you go to a "fitting" for a custom horn, and then you don't end up with the instrument that you made during the fitting?

So you get a trombone built for.you over 1 - 3 days that is exactly what you are after and then you have to order the exact same model parts, wait 6 - 12 months for it to come... And then you end up with a trombone that plays differently because well, it is a different trombone then the one you built? I don't see how that is any different then just blindly buying a trombone online after trying them out at a convention or small retailer and taking the risk it will be a good one. (Memories of buying Bach trombones anyone?)

[norbie2018]

That doesn't happen at edwards. I bought a trombone from them about a year and a half ago; if they have all parts in stock you take it home that day. That's of course assuming edwards is a custom shop.

[Bach5G]

I doubt the differences between what you select in the fitting and what you receive (assuming same specs) would be noticeable.

In my case, the slide I received was nowhere as good as the slide I tried in the shop and had to go back for repairs. Slightly different issue though.