Yamaha ysl 356r

[hyperbolica]

I'm not sure why, really, but I've got a new-to-me Yammie 356r. Maybe I was hoping this would be a shortcut to a small bore with an F attachment. I had a 455, and liked it enough that I was wondering how it would be with a valve. I want this horn to be my new quintet horn. I need something lightish and brightish, and definitely with a valve and a good valve range sound. It also has to have a high range, with good sound to C or D. Don't we all.

The 356 is a dual bore 500/525 with an 8" red bell. I guess it's supposed to be a student horn, but this is nicer than student level. Intermediate maybe, but not really a pro feeling horn. It has a fair bit of nickel silver on it, and the back end of the horn is a little light (no MTS brace, and no counterweight), but it's not really nose heavy.

I'm not really a Yamaha fan, but I'm not really dead set against them either. I'm a Conn guy, but I own enough other brands that I'm not necessarily stuck in that rut. Conn doesn't really have a horn smaller than the 79h or 50h with a valve. The 79h plays kind of big, which is weird because the 78h plays small. I've played the 79h, 88h w/525 and a number of small straight bones in quintet. I really like the Getzen 3508 in quintet, but it needs a valve in that setting.

I've got a number of horns that don't work in the quintet setting for a few reasons. 32h is a little sluggish, 48 is a little overpowering, Recording kind of gets lost in the Fhorn sound. 6h works nice, but again, doesn't have a valve. I've played the 88h with the smaller 525 slide, and that's nice.

So I wound up with this 356. I've had other 500/525 horns, like the 32h and Yammy 455. And I did put a 356 main slide crook on the 32h to get past the super-narrow slide. I didn't want to put a valve on the 32h as an experiment, so that's probably what this 356 really is.

First impressions of the horn are just like other Yammies - nice horn, but it kind of resists me. It's like driving a nice car with the brakes dragging. It doesn't want t be too flexible or too responsive. The sound is nice, but not Conn nice. I'm using a DE xtn104D+3. Using something too small made it nasty, and too large makes it even more dull and resistant. Part of the problem might be the heavy-ish bell.

The intonation is ok, but it's a little odd. The low Bb is a bit sharp maybe. The whole horn is probably a tad sharp. High A and Ab are maybe a little shielded and hard to nail without splitting.

Will it work? Yes, of course. Will I be happy playing it? Part of that will be answered at the next quintet rehearsal.

Does anybody have some reasonably high level experience playing a 356r (or 456) in real gigs, preferably chamber/quintet?

[Matt K]

I used mine for that purpose a few times, but mostly for commercial work. I had similar experience with what you describe about it feeling heavy. Tried a few things over the years: yanked the pipe, tried several tuning slides, even had the bell bead soldered.

At the end of the day, the bell section is very similar to a large bore bell section so it didn’t quite do what I needed - though in your case that’s probably an advantage. The bell section is on the heavier side, or at least mine was. I believe mine was yellow brass though. Perhaps the red bell has a different weight. It’s a real shame they didn’t make a bell like the 645 but in 8” (and with a soldered bell bead…). I bet I’d still be on Yamahas if I had that as an option.

To the best of my knowledge, all 4xx, 5xx, and 6xx tuning slides are either the same part or the same specs with minor differences. I found a cross brace helped add a little color. I used a 548GOAL tuning slide for awhile then had a custom cross brace added.

I tried many leadpipes, but the 356 one ended up being the best - including compared to a few 32H replica pipes (seamed yellow, sterling silver, drawn yellow), Shires 500 1… can’t remember all of them. However, with the benefit of hindsight and having tried more pipes between when I sold my 356 and now, I really wonder if a 2B+ pipe wouldn’t work well in that horn. Mine adds a ton of color and focus without being excessively bright or brittle to my 500/525 horn now. Note that it’s a two piece pipe so it needs a mouthpiece receiver too.

I never tried a nickel crook, but I suspect that would help too. I wanted to try one all the years I had one and never got around to it. I have no idea what crook I’d try. MK drawing has a good Olds Recoridng replica that’s in my current 50”/525 slide but it’s a touch narrower than I like. Plays great though.

Ex-post-facto soldering the bell bead made a small change… possible placebo more than anything.

For your purposes, I’d be tempted to even suggest trying a 645 bell section to see if it worked better. It’s a MUCH more lively bell in my option. The slide pairs no problem. A 646 bell is very similar to yours but with. 547 bore valve, and of course the 645 bell. If youre at ATW this year and I haven’t sold it by then I may be able to bring one by for you to try.

[hyperbolica]

Well, I'm going to put some time in on it and work through the honeymoon period. A couple quintet rehearsals will help sort things out as well.

[Burgerbob]

I played one of these recently and I was largely unimpressed. Just kind of dull. Not too hard to play but nothing beyond that.

[hyperbolica]

It's a horn I could play every day, but not exactly inspiring. It's extremely... average in every way. There's nothing bad about it at all.