Slide lubricant for older/vintage slides

[bassboneman69]

Hi all
I am thinking this may be a query posed already.

For older (60’s era) slides is Trombotine a better option than Yammie Sonic Snot?

Asking for a friend

Sam

[JLivi]

I usually stick to Yamaha slide lube due to how easy and clean it is to apply. But I pretty much only own vintage horns (except for my bass bone) and I've found that trombotine (or any good cream) works really well.

When I get my horns sonically cleaned, or even clean out the outer slide myself I always apply trombotine first, before I move onto Yamaha. Not sure if it's helpful, but I like the idea of having the cream coat the inside of the outer slide.

I also have two King 3b's and the slide that's in worse condition is better with the cream. The nicer slide is perfectly fine with the Yamaha.

[Burgerbob]

I just use Yamaha on everything.

[Kbiggs]

I think anything will work, so long as the slide is clean, there’s no corrosion, and the tubes are parallel.

Having said that, I use Trombotine as a base for my slides, and sometimes by itself. Older slides might be better with Trombotine. Just experiment.

I converted to UltraPure Alessi Formula from YamaSnot a few years ago. I think it works just a wee bit better. (FWIW UltraPure regular is good for new and tight tolerance slides.)

[OneTon]

Yamaha Slide Lubricant will work on any slide that is in reasonably good condition regardless of age. It is very forgiving and simple to use. Trombotine gets advocated for slides that have issues such as brassing on an inner slide tube. Some people use it as their go to lubricant on all slides. In spite of having been a black belt Ponds Cold Cream user many years ago, my skills have atrophied. If Yamaha Slide Lubricant doesn’t work, I get the slide fixed or get rid of it. Yamaha Slide Lubricant works on my post 1900’s illegitimate 0.460 bore Holton with soldered slide stockings.

[GabrielRice]

The answer is it depends.

Trombotine definitely works better than anything else on my 1940 Conn 70H that has some chrome wear on the stockings. It also works better on my mid-60s 50B slide that has a little chrome wear but also too much red rot to polish the interior heavily. That slide is in retirement and stored bone dry.

I also have a 50B slide from the mid 70s that works great with Yamaha stuff and a couple from the 80s that also work with Yamaha.

[bassboneman69]

Luckily both 169 slides I have, currently, have no plating loss.
Gabriel - I am going to do a little experiment to see if Trombotine makes the slides behave better.
Waiting for my 185 slide to return from Mr. Splawn…

[WGWTR180]

Rapid comfort on all of my old slides.

[Bonearzt]

IMHO, Trombotine is wonderful for older more "experienced" tubes! I feel it tends to fill in the pocks of corrosion.

But...you DO need to use enough!
I find that most people don't use ENOUGH cream!! Possibly same for yamasnot and/or other lubes!

Remember that you need to coat the entire inner surface of the outer tubes!!
And I also feel like the water bottles that spray a fine mist don't put enough water in large enough drops to make the slide work quickly.

[OneTon]

Eliminating excessive water atomization may be the key to making Trombotine work. In the real bad old days we improvised water bottles, often from these liquid lemon juice plastic containers that were yellow and shaped like lemons. They may have been used for ice tea. They were awkward to stow in a trombone case. The military characterized them as the M1-IWB/L. I also used to apply relatively copious amounts of Ponds Cold Cream to the slide stockings, fill the outer slide half full with water, and work the slide to achieve saturation.

[Cmillar]

Having the best ever slide with Reka lubricant on my 1957 King 2BSS, and the best ever on the 1974 Conn 88H with Reka.

[tim]

I find on my old 62h that trombone or super slick work the best. Over time the slides tend to get microscopic pits and the cream smoothe the surface of the inner slide.

[OneTon]

I cleaned up the slide on the 1960s era (?) King 2B that did not do well with Yamaha Slide Lubricant using Dawn dish soap and a snake. I could find no bare brass coming through the inner slide plating. I applied Trombotine to the slide. And it worked. And it didn’t stink. That slide likes
Trombotine and dislikes Yamaha Slide Lubricant. So I apologize for any negative thing that I said about Trombotine.

[220FifthSstreet]

In the dark ages of the early 1950's when dinosaurs roamed the earth, I used oil....yes, oil. Dalby's "Omaha Special" at 25 cents a bottle and applied with the eyedropper that came with the bottle. Slide was smooth, but noisy.
When my older brother came home on leave from playing in a big band in the US Army, he introduced me to Pond's Cold Cream. After a good cleaning (never mix the oil and cream!). I apply enough cream to get a little buildup at the stockings and work the slide back and forth about 50 times. This should be enough to coat the outer slide....then I wipe most of it off, fill the slide with warm (not hot) water and pump it about 100 times....the water should be well beaded and act like ball bearings. I then drain the slide and we're read to go. From time to time I apply a few drops of water by inverting a squeeze bottle and work the slide to get things beaded up again. I stopped using a spray bottle when other guys didn't appreciate the shower (nor did I from their spray bottles). This works well on my Olds, Bach, King, and Martin Committee, all older vintage slides.

[OneTon]

The answer to the OP is: It depends. My 1960s King 2B prefers Trombotine over YSL. My 1970s 2B did well on YSL before it got ran over by a vehicle. It was in the case.

[rudytbone]

In the dark ages of the early 1950's when dinosaurs roamed the earth, I used oil....yes, oil. Dalby's "Omaha Special" at 25 cents a bottle and applied with the eyedropper that came with the bottle. Slide was smooth, but noisy.
When my older brother came home on leave from playing in a big band in the US Army, he introduced me to Pond's Cold Cream. After a good cleaning (never mix the oil and cream!). I apply enough cream to get a little buildup at the stockings and work the slide back and forth about 50 times. This should be enough to coat the outer slide....then I wipe most of it off, fill the slide with warm (not hot) water and pump it about 100 times....the water should be well beaded and act like ball bearings. I then drain the slide and we're read to go. From time to time I apply a few drops of water by inverting a squeeze bottle and work the slide to get things beaded up again. I stopped using a spray bottle when other guys didn't appreciate the shower (nor did I from their spray bottles). This works well on my Olds, Bach, King, and Martin Committee, all older vintage slides.

I used to use Pond's as well, then switched to Superslick and now Slide-O-Mix. I've had no issues with the Slide-O-Mix on any of my horns.

[Tbarh]

My rule of thumb is ;trombotine on older worn slide , Slide o mix Rapid comfort on tight slides, Yamaha on all the rest .

[whitbey]

Yami snot
The old horn gets a lot of it.

[Posaunus]

There's an interesting article on slide lubricants in the excellent July 2024 issue of the International Trombone Association Journal, co-authored by Doug Yeo. ("Know What Makes a 'Slip Horn' Slide?") No, they make no recommendations. But lots of trombone oil history - vintage lubricants, as it were (it's Doug Yeo, after all!), and spectrometric chemical analysis.

[nateaff]

I've found for old or worn slides the best stuff is Yamaha's cream. As far as I can tell it's basically the exact same stuff as the super slick cream.

[Bonearzt]

In addition to my above comments, I have come to the, unscientifically proven, conclusion that any kind of chemical cleaning or ultra-sonic cleaning is detrimental to the interior of the outer tubes.

[ghmerrill]

... any kind of chemical cleaning or ultra-sonic cleaning is detrimental to the interior of the outer tubes.

Not questioning the conclusion, but I wonder if you could elaborate on what considerations have inclined you towards this.

[Blabberbucket]

In addition to my above comments, I have come to the, unscientifically proven, conclusion that any kind of chemical cleaning or ultra-sonic cleaning is detrimental to the interior of the outer tubes.

As detrimental as not having your slide cleaned for 10+ years and having to replace rotten tubes and handslide crooks?

[Bonearzt]

... any kind of chemical cleaning or ultra-sonic cleaning is detrimental to the interior of the outer tubes.

Not questioning the conclusion, but I wonder if you could elaborate on what considerations have inclined you towards this.

Somewhere deep in the cobwebs of my mind, I remember a discussion about acid/chemical cleaning microscopically "etching" the raw brass eventually causing pitting and corrosion.
So my thinking was/is to avoid that as much as possible to retain as smooth a surface as possible.
And to a lesser extent, the ultra sonic cleanings, which we have seen, will blow through red rot in a hurry!

So, in my slide work, I'll only use a rather soft bristle brush and plastic snake and soapy water.
After any dent repair, I will polish with tripoli.

Again, just my non-scientific thoughts.

[Bonearzt]

In addition to my above comments, I have come to the, unscientifically proven, conclusion that any kind of chemical cleaning or ultra-sonic cleaning is detrimental to the interior of the outer tubes.

As detrimental as not having your slide cleaned for 10+ years and having to replace rotten tubes and handslide crooks?

Never said I don't clean, just not with anything harsh or acidic.

Yes horns definitely need to be cleaned regularly and consistently.

But even a rinse with plain, lukewarm water to get the big chunks of lung butter out will extend the life of the horn.
And also hopefully keep your neighbor from gagging due to the stank of a dirty horn.

[ghmerrill]

Somewhere deep in the cobwebs of my mind, I remember a discussion about acid/chemical cleaning microscopically "etching" the raw brass eventually causing pitting and corrosion.
So my thinking was/is to avoid that as much as possible to retain as smooth a surface as possible.

That makes sense, and is really a "matter of degree" or "use only when you need to". It's quite easy for an acid (even a fairly dilute one) to leach zinc out of a brass alloy matrix, for example. I came close to ruining a beautiful red brass tuba at one point by not paying close enough attention to how long I was leaving the vinegar solution in contact with the brass. Sometimes you need those methods to remove calcium deposits, but you have to be careful, and take great care in flushing and neutralizing. I have used vinegar or CLR for calcium deposits in some old horns, but with great care.

[JTeagarden]

Edwards recommends Trombotine for their slides, and I tend to use this for older slides, just seems to hold up well...

Another thing I do is either have the trombone I am currently concentrating on on a trombone stand as opposed to in the case, this seems to keep the slide working better for longer, I assume because the water drains into the crook, as opposed to being trapped beween the slide tubes if stored in a case horiontally.

[ghmerrill]

Edwards recommends Trombotine for their slides, ...

I confess that this has mystified me, and I wonder if it's just left over from experience and decisions made decades ago. Not that there's anything wrong with Trombotine (though it's never worked as well for me in any horn as more modern slide lubes have). In part, my suspicion stems from Edwards' continued comparison of Trombotine to Slide-O-Mix (another decades-old product) in terms of performance, and talk about how it doesn't "break down" and "leave residue" -- an issue I've not encountered at all with the more contemporary lubes that employ silicone oils and surfactants, and in particular with Yamaha Slide Lubricant.

People do frequently mention using Trombotine on "older slides". I wonder if this may not be just because such an "older slide" is significantly worn and the Trombotine acts as more of a lubricating "filler" than the silicone oils. The Yamasnot is still better (to me) on my '47 Olds Standard -- although that doesn't have the original inners.

[JoeAumann]

Yes

[BGuttman]

Edwards recommends Trombotine for their slides, ...

I confess that this has mystified me, and I wonder if it's just left over from experience and decisions made decades ago. Not that there's anything wrong with Trombotine (though it's never worked as well for me in any horn as more modern slide lubes have). In part, my suspicion stems from Edwards' continued comparison of Trombotine to Slide-O-Mix (another decades-old product) in terms of performance, and talk about how it doesn't "break down" and "leave residue" -- an issue I've not encountered at all with the more contemporary lubes that employ silicone oils and surfactants, and in particular with Yamaha Slide Lubricant.

People do frequently mention using Trombotine on "older slides". I wonder if this may not be just because such an "older slide" is significantly worn and the Trombotine acts as more of a lubricating "filler" than the silicone oils. The Yamasnot is still better (to me) on my '47 Olds Standard -- although that doesn't have the original inners.

I think you hit the nail squarely on the thumb Trombotine does fill spaces much better than most silicone oils and hence with a slide with some wear would work better than an oil. Same could be said for Superslick or Pond's Cold Cream.

[ghmerrill]

Same could be said for Superslick or Pond's Cold Cream.

Or peanut butter? -- at least with high oil content.

That's okay ... I use some pretty esoteric stuff as patch lubricant in my muzzle loaders.