Two Hüttls and some general questions

[Nomsis]

If this is posted in the wrong place feel free to move it.

A few years ago I bought a cheap Hüttl trombone (70€) in pretty bad shape, the best thing about it was the slide working quite ok.. I had a tech bringing it roughly in shape, which means a lot of undenting and some soldering (~100€). Since then it served me well for some special use cases like marching once a year and some "guggenmusik". But every time I had to use it I got annoyed by the quirks of the instrument which I increasingly felt were to many to be acceptable. The quirks were the instrument being a little bit stuffy (probably due to the tube diameter roughly halved at the bottom of the slide), very bad balance due to the missing counterweight, bad intonation (no useable D in first) and some strange resonance of the bell at some frequencies. The last two probably are because of the entire instrument being a little bit deformed due to the massive dents + removal.

Since I recently sold some instruments I felt the urgent need to buy something to fill up the unacceptable free space and I went hunting for an upgrade. What I have found is just another Hüttl for 100€ (Main idea is to get away as cheap as possible due to tight budget for this use case)

It seems both instruments are almost built identical although there are some subtle differences, for example the braces on the outer slide. The new one has slide springs, the old one hasn't. The new one has stamped "line 800" on the bell, the old one hasn't. I can put the new bell on the old slide and screw it on but I can't screw the old slide on the new bell.
And of course the new one is generally in a much better shape.
When it arrived per Mail at first I was a little bit disappointed by the slide, it was really unacceptable unsmooth. But after I did some cleaning and alignment on it it's working fine now. So all in all it is a big upgrade, the above quirks are all gone. Balance and intonation is fixed, resonance is gone.

Now on to the questions/ things I'm thinking of:

Are those instruments silver plated? The tech told me on the first one that it is. The seller of the second one told me he thinks it is chrome plated. Which one is right? Or are they different plated? Can the yellow spot on the second one tell us something about he plating?

Both instruments of course take in small shank mouthpieces but both take them in just a little bit. It is even worse on the new one. The mouthpieces sticks out very much. I have two small shanks mouthpieces which I'm considering, both JK, a regular 6D (little bit deeper/bigger) and a custom 7G (very shallow). I got the custom one used when I purchased a couple mouthpieces from one seller and I think it has a custom shaft so this mouthpieces goes in a little bit further, still sticks out a bit. With the 7G the instrument opens up and plays very open/nice. Sound of course is brighter. With the 6D it feels a little bit stuffy and doesn't speak as well. Sound is warmer, less punchy of course. Is the stuffiness because the mouthpiece goes barely in or because the instrument needs a shallower cup? I'm thinking of carefully filing away a little bit on the mouthpiece receiver so I can put in every small shank mouthpiece. I would like to have the option for other mouthpieces as the shallow one, even if giving a nice trombony sound, might be to bright for some use cases. And I would like to have some space on the intonation. Tuning is fine (a= 442Hz) with the tuning slide all in but there is no room for tuning up the instrument if necessary. For the same reason I'm thinking about removing the slide springs or cutting the tuning slide, but I don't have the perfect tools for doing this.
Another idea I had was using the inner slide of the first one as the mouthpiece goes in (a little) further and there are no slide springs, but as mentioned it does not screw on.

Oh, another thing, the slide lock is missing on the new one currently, I need to file it down a little bit as it is hitting the inner slide. This was true for the old one as well.

What are your ideas and opinions about his?

[Nomsis]

some pictures

[UATrombone]

I've never seen chrome plated bells. Only nickel and silver plated.
AFAIK, chrome plating is usually thick enough and bell could be "dead" because of this.
You can check colors of bell and chrome plated inners, chrome has different color compared to nickel and silver.

[MrHCinDE]

You might be better off with a Yamaha 354, with a bit of patience they come up for sub-200€ and are very solid horns. Otherwise an older student King or Conn model might do the trick. Exciting, probably not, but reliable and cheap.

[NotSkilledHere]

i think some horns used to be chrome plated for marching band or DCI at a point in time, but i dont know enough to know if slide trombones were in use at that time or if they still chrome plate horns for marching bands.

[BGuttman]

i think some horns used to be chrome plated for marching band or DCI at a point in time, but i dont know enough to know if slide trombones were in use at that time or if they still chrome plate horns for marching bands.

Chrome plate is actually a pretty bad coating. It's much harder than brass. This means it will tend to blister off the substrate. Silver is a good choice because it has a hardness similar to brass. The Russians (St. Petersburg brand) seem to like nickel plate. Nickel is harder than brass, but will still adhere better.

Chrome plate involves some really environmentally nasty solutions and is really avoided where possible. That's why you don't see chrome plated bumpers on cars any more.

[Nomsis]

I have come to the conclusion that it might indeed be that it is chrome plated. It definitely does not look exactly like the silver plating I'm used to, neglecting the fact that there is some variation in looks on silver plate. The yellow spot makes much more sense as well in chrome, oxidised chome can look like this afaik. The plating does feel pretty hard indeed and has some rough spots, maybe due to the brittleness. But after all I think it is a fine instrument, feels good with a nice powerful sound and no further issues.

I still want to try opening up the mouthpiece receiver a little bit to make it usable with more mouthpieces.

[Nomsis]

You might be better off with a Yamaha 354, with a bit of patience they come up for sub-200€ and are very solid horns. Otherwise an older student King or Conn model might do the trick. Exciting, probably not, but reliable and cheap.

You are probably right but I think its more fun exploring the less-known paths of the trombone world (;

plus I don't think there are many contenders for finding a fine trombone in at least ok condition for 100€. This is a fun challenge on its own in my book.

Another plus is that it looks cool.

And it has a nice case and close to no dents, no red rot.

[MrHCinDE]

Enjoy!

Sounds like a good purchase. I have enjoyed the many vintage small bore tenors which have passed through my hands, it’s a relatively cheap way to explore those paths you mention.

Check out Ron’Z Garage on YouTube, I’m fascinated by his comparisons of vintage horns and repair jobs.