Rath Hand support

[NotATrumpet]

Does anyone use a Rath Hand Support or have any experience with one ? I've tried other aids with varying success. The most comfortable one was the NeoTech but it only fits my King small bore. The Rath and Conn have small braces which hamper the fitting of the NeoTech.

[dbwhitaker]

There have been a lot of previous discussions here about various hand supports including Rath. I use a Rath hand support when playing bass or large tenor. I can hold my 3b just fine without support. A common complaint about the Rath brace is that the pressure on the back of the hand becomes uncomfortable after a while. It helps to add some extra foam padding: https://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic. ... 62#p233462

[Burgerbob]

I don't personally dig the Rath. I had one on my contra and it was just not great. I have a much better brace on it now that does everything better.

On tenors and basses I think the Rath is typically overkill, and adds a lot of weight and stuff bolted onto the trombone.

[mrdeacon]

For my Raths the only two removable hand supports I’ve liked are the Calder Pipe grip and the Yamaha 2.0 hand strap.

I recently went back to my Calder Pip grips and I think I’ll stay with them. I like the support that they offer your hand and they are very comfortable to use.

The Olsen Axe handles come in different versions that can fit Conn or Rath. If you’re looking for a thumb rest solution I’d put them at the top of your list.

[BGuttman]

Does anyone use a Rath Hand Support or have any experience with one ? I've tried other aids with varying success. The most comfortable one was the NeoTech but it only fits my King small bore. The Rath and Conn have small braces which hamper the fitting of the NeoTech.

The NeoTech grip comes wit a set of shims to put inside the clamp to fit different brace sizes -- or did you misplace yours?

[UATrombone]

The NeoTech grip comes wit a set of shims to put inside the clamp to fit different brace sizes -- or did you misplace yours?

For Conn you need to "tune" it with a file as I did...

[NotATrumpet]

Thanks to all for your comments and suggestions. I've tried the Clader pips and that had a lot of potential but I have never managed to find the optimum fitting. When it's comfortable and supportive it's getting in the way of the trigger. Plus I found that the leather soon wore away leaving the metal underneath exposed where it grips on to the trombone. No damage had been done but then I found it in time. The leather hand straps are OK but (maybe I'm doing it wrong) they seem to tighten and squash my hand. The part of the NeoTech that attaches to the trombone does so by two screws in the clamp. On the Rath and Conn there are are extra little "braces" which means that clamp can be fixed but only with one of the screws which isn't ideal. I also couldn't get a good position for the hand strap part without it making the trigger harder to operate. I haven't got a Rath support to try but, looking at the pictures, I agree that it does look like it will add weight which seems counterproductive, hence my original question. I need to find something because, even though I've tried refining the way I hold the trombone, I'm getting numbness in the tip of my 2nd finger.

[EmmaC]

These suggestions have been useful for me too thanks as it’s a bit of a minefield trying to find a support that will work.

[AtomicClock]

The leather hand straps are OK but (maybe I'm doing it wrong) they seem to tighten and squash my hand.

A product that should exist, but doesn't, is a leather hand strap with a piece of aluminum sewn into the lining, It would keep the strap stiff behind the hand, and keep the strap from pinching the thumb webbing.

[AtomicClock]

I need to find something because, even though I've tried refining the way I hold the trombone, I'm getting numbness in the tip of my 2nd finger.

Is the 2nd finger supporting the weight of the trombone? You could try switching to the "Doug Yeo" grip, which would put the weight on a different finger. Alternating between the two hand positions would halve the stress on each finger.

https://www.yeodoug.com/resources/faq/f ... nsion.html

[ghmerrill]

Thank you for reminding me of Yeo's approach to this. I think this may be a key to adapting to my new Getzen 1052, where the layout is significantly different from the Chinese 7B clone I've been playing for years.

[NotATrumpet]

AtomicClock; That strap idea. of yours is a winner. I've tried that Yeo grip but find it harder to use the trigger and end up gripping the brace between the first and second fingers.

[ghmerrill]

The success or failure of the Yeo grip depends very much on the specific horn and specific hand gripping it (as is true of almost any approach). It didn't work for me on my previous horn where all that was needed was a well-adjusted Bullet Brace. But I think it will work well on this one -- and Yeo highlights Edwards basses (and hence Getzens) as examples where it may be valuable, especially in the context of smaller hands. For me, it seems to provide the kind of "neutral" grip where you're not really GRIPPING the horn, but holding it comfortably and well balanced -- so you're not "squeezing" it in one way or another. It does require adjusting the second valve paddle correctly, but on my horn, that's easy to do and it doesn't appear that it will require bending the rod.

[AtomicClock]

For me, it seems to provide the kind of "neutral" grip where you're not really GRIPPING the horn, but holding it comfortably and well balanced -- so you're not "squeezing" it in one way or another.

I used Yeo's grip for many years on a Bach 42B (so only one trigger). I bore the weight of the horn by squeezing the lower cork barrel with my pinky and ring fingers.
Before that, it was borne by the index and ring fingers pushing on the slide crossbrace (I was never taught to lay the index finger on the mouthpiece).
Other people support the weight on their index or ring fingers against the upper cork barrel.
It''s interesting how these seemingly perpendicular force vectors can all hold up a trombone.

[ghmerrill]

Before that, it was borne by the index and ring fingers pushing on the slide crossbrace (I was never taught to lay the index finger on the mouthpiece).

That's been my approach as well. And I've never been comfortable trying to lay the index finger on the mouthpiece (or receiver) -- until now. It seems a natural thing to do with the Yeo grip, at least for me.

It''s interesting how these seemingly perpendicular force vectors can all hold up a trombone.

Yes, but often with some degree of discomfort/pain.

[ghmerrill]

As an addendum ... I've been seriously trying out the Yeo grip, and it seems very effective and comfortable for me. Unfortunately, I can't seem to figure out how to do quick and safe mute changes without either (a) dropping the slide, or (b) having to go through a "lock on/ lock off" sequence for the slide in order to do the change without losing the slide. And I have to do a lot of fast mute changes -- often involving a cup mute the size of a small waste basket.

So it's looking as though the Yeo grip is out for me. Well, it's been an interesting experiment.

[AtomicClock]

I've heard nothing at all about the Wise Grip, but it looks like an interesting product.
https://wisegrip.com/

[muschem]

I've heard nothing at all about the Wise Grip, but it looks like an interesting product.
https://wisegrip.com/

I have a couple of those laying around. I should probably list them for sale at some point.