Vibrato practice/teaching

[ttf_bonenick]

Well...vibrato is often neglected both in our performance practice, practice rooms and while teaching

As many of you know I am a trumpeter who tries to learn trombone doubling and jazz/impro all at once.

I started taking Skype lessons with Larry Meregilano. At first he thought that I just wanted lead chops..
and though this is something I desire and go after, we touched a lot of other subjects, one of which was vibrato.

I was impressed by the systemacity (is there even such a word?) of his approach to merely learning  how to make a vibrato ..here it is:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155381278545255&id=585865254

I will implement this in my Trombone practice...what do you think?

[ttf_Doug Elliott]

I would like to read it but I'm not on Facebook.  Can you copy some text and paste it here?

[ttf_bonenick]

Basically he teaches vibrato as Arban and many teach lip trill and flexibility.

You take a note and play a vibrato oscillation in quarter notes, then in eights, then sixteens and so on.

Basically the idea is to teach yourself or your student to make vibrato at any speed AT WILL and be able to put it anywhere in a piece/solo where you deem appropriate.

[ttf_Jim Medill]

Coming from a background on the Baritone and trumpet before moving to a valve trombone I was taught to use my diaphragm as opposed to finger movement on the keys. This may have been just our instructor's preference. I have often thought that moving the slide for vibrato must be flattening and sharpening the note, where using your diaphragm keeps the desired note in tune. I did try this out playing into my tuner with vibrato and the needle does not waver. I have also read some comments from members about the difficulty in using slide vibrato in the higher registers although I have to say that Carol Jarvis does a great job with "In the Wee Small Hours Of The Morning" (YouTube) using her slide. I can say that using vibrato with your diaphragm is the same no matter the range. I am curious to see how the members are split between the two methods.
One final advantage I see in using the diaphragm as you do not have to adjust your technique between any wind instruments.
Regards,
Jim     

[ttf_Andrew Meronek]

I've never liked breath vibrato on the trombone. A huge point of vibrato is to vary the pitch, after all, so not varying it and producing a different effect means you're not matching how other instruments are going to produce it, unless you're trying to match a vintage Hammond organ or something. The one instrument where I think it sounds good is on the flute, but in that case varying the volume also affects the pitch.

And, why would a performer want to vary the pitch, besides matching style? The traditional pitch warble vibrato hides problems inherent in tuning in large classical ensembles.

I also think that slide vibrato (and related slide effects like portamentos) is hugely underutilized in classical trombone performance style. Use all the tools you have to create an energetic performance. Slide vibrato gets closest in effect to a cello vibrato.

[ttf_bonenick]

Andrew, my post was mostly about learning and teaching various techniques of vibrato in a way that enables us to apply any kind of vibrato anywhere where appropriate. Where is appropriate is a whole another discussion. There is a lot of cases where varying and modifying the pitch and timbre can be appropriate. Then there is the section/ensemble playing. Sometimes the vibrato can be appropriate, most of the time is to be avoided.

All techniques are to be mastered to avoid uncontrollable wobbling of the tone, at least from my point of view. Music intuition and expressiveness are only to tell us where could be appropriate to use any given technique of vibrato or other Sonic effect done with the slide or through embouchure or breathing.

However, our music senses should be educated through style observation and studying.

The slide vibrato seems to be underused because occasionally some teachers (mostly classical) may think of it as old fashion, out of date effect. But that seems to be rather relative.

[ttf_Andrew Meronek]

Ah, I thought you were talking strictly about jaw/embouchure vibrato, as per the standard technique especially for converted trumpet/euph/etc. players who start with what they knew on those instruments.

No worries. Rhythmic control in vibrato is important. So, for that matter, is the control of pitch or volume variation, and in which directions. Turkish singing, for example, has very prevalent pitch deviation above the note instead of our Western practice of deviating below.

[ttf_harrison.t.reed]

That approach is similar to Christian Lindberg's vibrato, produced with the chin. He does his in a controlled way, but it's a bit fast for a lot of Americans. The Arban kind of way.

I know some people do it with their air too. And a lot of jazz guys do it with the slide, or with both the slide and their chin at the same time. It's good that you found a teacher who explains it in a way that locks for you.

[ttf_harrison.t.reed]

Quote from: Andrew Meronek on Oct 22, 2017, 08:40PMAnd, why would a performer want to vary the pitch, besides matching style? The traditional pitch warble vibrato hides problems inherent in tuning in large classical ensembles.

Answered your own question there! That is part of the reason for vibrato.

[ttf_bonenick]

I am still struggling with slide technique, so when I do slide vibrato the horn is still rocking/wobbling too much (or at least I think so)

Any suggestions will be well received.

[ttf_hyperbolica]

Quote from: bonenick on Oct 24, 2017, 01:29AMI am still struggling with slide technique, so when I do slide vibrato the horn is still rocking/wobbling too much (or at least I think so)

Any suggestions will be well received.
I've been working on slide vibrato recently too. You need to start with a slide in great condition and use as little body mass as possible to move the slide. The worse the condition of the slide, the more it has to move, the more your horn and head will shake.  Just your fingers or wrist if necessary.

Listen to other pros play and then emulate the ones that sound good to you.

Personally, I use what I've always called "lip" vibrato, but uses more chin or jaw, maybe even tongue. Its easier to control. Plus, I usually save the slide vibrato for jazz styles.

[ttf_trombonemetal]

Quote from: bonenick on Oct 24, 2017, 01:29AMI am still struggling with slide technique, so when I do slide vibrato the horn is still rocking/wobbling too much (or at least I think so)

Any suggestions will be well received.

Maybe examine your left hand grip. If it's too loose or if the horn is resting on your neck or shoulder you might be holding up the horn with your slide more than you think. If you've got the horns weight on the slide, when you do slide vibrato it will make the whole horn wobble.

[ttf_trombonemetal]

Quote from: bonenick on Oct 24, 2017, 01:29AMI am still struggling with slide technique, so when I do slide vibrato the horn is still rocking/wobbling too much (or at least I think so)

Any suggestions will be well received.

Maybe examine your left hand grip. If it's too loose or if the horn is resting on your neck or shoulder you might be holding up the horn with your slide more than you think. If you've got the horns weight on the slide, when you do slide vibrato it will make the whole horn wobble.