How long can you normally practice? i.e. endurance problem.

ttf_sirisobhakya · Post by **ttf_sirisobhakya** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:49 pm

I have been a returning trombonist for almost 1 year now, and almost all my skills have come back to me (though I don't have that much skill in the first place since I played seriously until only high school, 10 years ago). Because of work and housing condition I can only practice once a week, but every now and then I rent a practice room. I normally rent it for 3-4 hours, but after around 2-2.5 hours of continuous practicing, my embouchure seems to fall apart. My high range drops from high Ab (8va

) to around high D, and even that is not secure. (Lower notes, especially lower than

, are intact.) So I often have to leave before the time is up.

In my opinion, 2-2.5 hours is too short, but I would also like to ask you all. And id it is really too short, how can I extend it?

Thank you for your answer.

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:03 pm

I'm sure you already considered this, but, here I am, Captain Obvious...I think you should practice more days per week rather than worry about how long you can last once or twice a week.

Practice mutes aren't great but if that would enable you to practice in your apartment (?) regularly I think that would be a substantial improvement over your current situation.

I don't think your endurance is going to get better on once or twice a week.

There's a reason most brass concertos are relatively brief things, about 20 minutes. Two hours of continuous playing is a lot on a trombone. (Of course, as soon as I say that someone will come by to claim it's nothing for them.)

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:12 pm

Rent your practice room for only 2 hours. Twice a week if you can manage it.

The way to build endurance is to play in short bursts with rests in between and shorten the rests. By short bursts I mean like 10 or 15 minutes, then rest for 10 or 15, then play, etc.

When your chops give out, you've gone too far.

ttf_cozzagiorgi · Post by **ttf_cozzagiorgi** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:45 pm

I am in a similar situation as you. What works for me is setting a timer to 20 minutes, playing for 20 minutes, then rest for 10 minutes, 20 minutes of playing again etc...

This will allow me to practice basically all day (when I have the time to do so) and still keeping mentally fresh.

On the 10 minute breaks, you don't just have to wait... do something else, something wich helps you do think about something else than playing.
Then conentrate on your first note. It is the most important note for the next 20 minutes. This trains you also to come in "cold" on those long symphonies we sometimes have to play.

ttf_Pre59 · Post by **ttf_Pre59** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:48 am

Quote from: robcat2075 on Sep 24, 2017, 10:03PM
Practice mutes aren't great but if that would enable you to practice in your apartment (?) regularly I think that would be a substantial improvement over your current situation.

I don't think your endurance is going to get better on once or twice a week.

I've had to use practice mutes for 6 years now, and after you've found the right one, the adjustment to playing open is relatively easy and it just becomes part of your musical life. You may have to try a few to get the right one, I'd avoid the Wick, even though it reduces a large amount of volume the transition time was the longest. The Bremner mute is popular, I use a Don Maslet, plus a Warburton Buzzard for warm-ups and conditioning.
Even if there's no need to use a practice mute, there's benefits to be had by using them to build endurance, like the East German athletes training on ramped race tracks..

ttf_bonenick · Post by **ttf_bonenick** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:24 am

When using practice mute, do practice at soft volumes. Save the loud playing for open practice/practice rooms. Staccato practice may help you endurance, but make sure first you have appropriate embouchure and breathing management.

ttf_William Lang · Post by **ttf_William Lang** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:26 am

two hours at a time is a good session length - it would be better to aim for more sessions per day/week rather than longer practicing.

ttf_Geordie · Post by **ttf_Geordie** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:33 am

I found free buzzing and mouthpiece buzzing worked for me in helping maintain some sort of embouchure between practices and helped build up capacity to play longer. Its quiet and convenient, even if you only do 10 -20 minutes here and there.

ttf_timothy42b · Post by **ttf_timothy42b** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:48 am

Pretty much every method and famous teacher says "rest as much as you play."

That's not easy to do. It does seem to work though.

I can play a lot longer if I record a phrase, listen to it, play again. In fact I sometimes run out of time before I run out of chops, depending on what I'm playing.

ttf_Doug Elliott · Post by **ttf_Doug Elliott** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:39 pm

Quote from: sirisobhakya on Sep 24, 2017, 09:49PMI have been a returning trombonist for almost 1 year now, and almost all my skills have come back to me (though I don't have that much skill in the first place since I played seriously until only high school, 10 years ago). Because of work and housing condition I can only practice once a week, but every now and then I rent a practice room. I normally rent it for 3-4 hours, but after around 2-2.5 hours of continuous practicing, my embouchure seems to fall apart. My high range drops from high Ab (8va

) to around high D, and even that is not secure. (Lower notes, especially lower than

, are intact.) So I often have to leave before the time is up.

In my opinion, 2-2.5 hours is too short, but I would also like to ask you all. And id it is really too short, how can I extend it?

Thank you for your answer.

Is this a joke?

ttf_bonesmarsh · Post by **ttf_bonesmarsh** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:53 pm

Poster is Japanese in Japan.
Don't the Japanese rent hotel rooms the size of coffins by the hour in Japan? The Japanese store wood offshore under water to save on space in heavily occupied areas.
I believe the post is legitimate.
Van Haney spoke of being demobilized in Manhattan in 1945 and having no place to play aside from a church basement, before he won both principal in Philadelphia and second in NY Phil in the same week.

ttf_Doug Elliott · Post by **ttf_Doug Elliott** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:45 pm

But did he practice 3 or 4 hours, only once a week?
That would kill anybody.

On second thought, I can go out and play a 3 or 4 hour gig once a week, without touching my horn during the week. But I'm not an out of shape returning player. It took many years of never missing a day (and really knowing how to play correctly) to get to where I am now.

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:46 pm

二時間だと?

おい、冗談じゃねぇ！

強すぎる

(Although, I thought the OP was just working in Japan. In either case, it inspired a haiku)

ttf_watermailonman · Post by **ttf_watermailonman** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:38 pm

Play everyday for at least half an hour instead of one long session once a week. You can play some sessions in a practice mute. It is not as fun but it will train your muscles. Keep the rented box to see of you are making progress. You can gradually increase the time as you get stronger. Good Luck!

/Tom

ttf_Radar · Post by **ttf_Radar** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:48 am

I can practice for several hours a day but not continuously. I stop after 40 minutes to an hour take a 10-20 Minute break, then I'll start again. You aren't going to build chops endurance playing once a week for a long period. As others have suggested I would invest in a practice mute for at home practice and try to do 1/2 hour a day, then rent the room once a week for unmuted practice.

ttf_MikeBMiller · Post by **ttf_MikeBMiller** » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:56 am

As a non full time pro who works something like a real job and also likes to ride bikes and so forth at night and on the weekends, I find that 30 minutes to an hour on days when I don't have a rehearsal or other gig keeps me in shape to do anything I need to do. That will never win me a big pro audition but it's what I have time for.

ttf_sirisobhakya · Post by **ttf_sirisobhakya** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:50 pm

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Sep 25, 2017, 02:45PMBut did he practice 3 or 4 hours, only once a week?
That would kill anybody.

On second thought, I can go out and play a 3 or 4 hour gig once a week, without touching my horn during the week. But I'm not an out of shape returning player. It took many years of never missing a day (and really knowing how to play correctly) to get to where I am now.

Sorry for long absence.

No, this is not a joke. In fact, some people in the band also do this too (especially those who are young, still single/still live in apartment, and do not have job related to music/music teacher). But there are also many people who, despite serious job with everyday 2-hour OT, still manage to practice almost everyday, and I respect them.

The cost of practice room here starts around $8~$10/hour for a ~8m^2 room, arguably more expensive than a normal hotel (around $50~$80 per night for a normal single room, capsule room is much cheaper, but take my advice, if you go to Japan, DO NOT STAY AT CAPSULE HOTEL UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY).

On the topic, I have decided to get a pratice mute. And now I am looking for a job in my home country, Thailand. Hopefully I can practice more there (but with almost no chance for any concert or gig, which is a problem I would like to discuss in another thread soon).

ttf_sirisobhakya · Post by **ttf_sirisobhakya** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:52 pm

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Sep 25, 2017, 02:46PM二時間だと?

おい、冗談じゃねぇ！

強すぎる

(Although, I thought the OP was just working in Japan. In either case, it inspired a haiku)

Your japanese is good!

ttf_bonenick · Post by **ttf_bonenick** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:04 am

Quote from: watermailonman on Sep 25, 2017, 03:38PMPlay everyday for at least half an hour instead of one long session once a week. You can play some sessions in a practice mute. It is not as fun but it will train your muscles. Keep the rented box to see of you are making progress. You can gradually increase the time as you get stronger. Good Luck!

/Tom

Although all the above is true and legit the pencil exercise and whisper tones can be helpful to maintain the embouchure muscles in shape, when "normal" practicing or using a practice mute is not an option.

ttf_Bob Riddle · Post by **ttf_Bob Riddle** » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:49 am

Length of practice per day is important if you plan on performing at a pro level.But most pros I know practice several sessions a day. Length can vary from 10 minutes to 2 hours a session.On the longer sessions there are many short breaks i order to allow blood flow to the facial muscles and lips. Also this aids the rest of the body which needs momentary rest to also recover.The real answer here is practice more times every day starting out with shorter sessions,gradually increasing the length of them.
Another thing to consider as far as endurance is concerned,is make sure you practice using your body correctly,in balance with as little mouthpiece pressure as getting a good sound will allow.This also can be HUGE hindrance to endurance.Practice different things daily as this does for practicing brass players what different exercises do for athletes.you end up hitting different muscles in a slightly different way.YMMV,but this has works for me for many years and I'm still improving,on the instrument and hopefully still growing as a musician.
Good Luck,
Bob

ttf_Bob Riddle · Post by **ttf_Bob Riddle** » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:49 am

Length of practice per day is important if you plan on performing at a pro level.But most pros I know practice several sessions a day. Length can vary from 10 minutes to 2 hours a session.On the longer sessions there are many short breaks i order to allow blood flow to the facial muscles and lips. Also this aids the rest of the body which needs momentary rest to also recover.The real answer here is practice more times every day starting out with shorter sessions,gradually increasing the length of them.
Another thing to consider as far as endurance is concerned,is make sure you practice using your body correctly,in balance with as little mouthpiece pressure as getting a good sound will allow.This also can be HUGE hindrance to endurance.Practice different things daily as this does for practicing brass players what different exercises do for athletes.you end up hitting different muscles in a slightly different way.YMMV,but this has works for me for many years and I'm still improving,on the instrument and hopefully still growing as a musician.
Good Luck,
Bob