Tone and Practice Mutes

ttf_tanstaafl · Post by **ttf_tanstaafl** » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:13 pm

My teacher tells me that if I use a practice mute for half an hour, I get a better tone when I stop using it. Which is weird but true. It's obviously something to do with the pressure needed to play with the mute, and it must make you do something to the inside of your mouth/throat that lingers for a while afterwards and then disappears. If I could work out what it's actually doing I should be able to reproduce it without having to use the mute first, but I can't. Any ideas?

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:31 pm

Denis Wick, among others, recommended the use of a practice mute to build up your chops. Blowing against resistance [for brief periods] seemed to be the idea.

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:47 pm

I've taken to doing the first 5-10 minutes with a practice mute just to get past that first 5-10 minutes that sound so awful I want to throw the horn away.

Quote If I could work out what it's actually doing I should be able to reproduce it without having to use the mute first, but I can't. Any ideas?
You could play so loud that you're having to put as much effort into it as the mute makes you do. The mute avoids driving the neighbors crazy.

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:26 pm

You might be learning to produce sound more efficiently. As long as you don't get into the habit of playing really loudly, or it doesn't mess with your ears, I guess you're ok.

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:35 am

My experience is if I use the practice mute more than 10 minutes, it doesn't make my sound any good. Jeff Reynolds had a method where he blow a low F very loud a couple of times. When you take it out the sound is better in all registers.

Leif

ttf_svenlarsson · Post by **ttf_svenlarsson** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:49 am

We are all different and play different. It is amazing that there is så many ways to play that actually so many good players do use so wery different attitudes and methods.
I use practise mute on gigs where there is not ok to make noice before the gig start. And If I want to practise at night 4 a clock in the morning when my wife is still asleep.
Normaly I satrt my playing very soft with some long tones, latter some flex, scales and more like that.

QuoteI've taken to doing the first 5-10 minutes with a practice mute just to get past that first 5-10 minutes that sound so awful I want to throw the horn away.I like that, it is funny!

ttf_davdud101 · Post by **ttf_davdud101** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:30 am

Quote from: robcat2075 on Oct 29, 2017, 03:47PMI've taken to doing the first 5-10 minutes with a practice mute just to get past that first 5-10 minutes that sound so awful I want to throw the horn away.

I was thinking humorously along these lines - you'll pretty much ALWAYS sound worse with a practice mute, so your tone WILL improve between having the mute in and taking it out...

I noticed that overuse of the practice mute stunted my range and tone development on trumpet. 'Course that was when I was a complete beginner and didn't have any other way to practice. Definitely avoid overuse at any rate.

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:18 am

Quote from: davdud101 on Oct 30, 2017, 08:30AMI was thinking humorously along these lines - you'll pretty much ALWAYS sound worse with a practice mute, so your tone WILL improve between having the mute in and taking it out...

That's pretty much it. "Well, of course I sound bad... I have a mute in!"

But seriously, warming up quietly was never very useful to me. It was always incomplete. I felt like I needed to knock some strong notes out before my lips began working. But those loud notes sound really bad at first. Hello, practice mute!

ttf_Pre59 · Post by **ttf_Pre59** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:32 pm

After 8+ years or practicing exclusively with a practice mute, IMO you can make it work if you get the right one. You may have to try and bin a few until you find the one that has the best balance between benefits and disadvantages. I'd avoid the Wick one, I found that it
harmed my attacks a lot.

ttf_trombonemetal · Post by **ttf_trombonemetal** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:39 pm

Im just going to throw this out there: nothing destroys my tone faster than a practice mute.

Anything more than 30 seconds with a practice mute and my sound is a disaster the next day. Given the choice between practicing with a mute and doing practice away from the horn (score study, singing with the piano, buzzing, memorizing, etc) Ill choose the second option 99% of the time. Thats far more productive in my opinion. Id rather not practice making a bad sound.

I do use my practice mute on occasion at gigs, but only for a few seconds.

ttf_Zandit75 · Post by **ttf_Zandit75** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:11 pm

Quote from: trombonemetal on Oct 30, 2017, 07:39PMIm just going to throw this out there: nothing destroys my tone faster than a practice mute.

Anything more than 30 seconds with a practice mute and my sound is a disaster the next day. Given the choice between practicing with a mute and doing practice away from the horn (score study, singing with the piano, buzzing, memorizing, etc) Ill choose the second option 99% of the time. Thats far more productive in my opinion. Id rather not practice making a bad sound.

I do use my practice mute on occasion at gigs, but only for a few seconds.
Quote from: Pre59 on Oct 30, 2017, 02:32PMAfter 8+ years or practicing exclusively with a practice mute, IMO you can make it work if you get the right one. You may have to try and bin a few until you find the one that has the best balance between benefits and disadvantages. I'd avoid the Wick one, I found that it
harmed my attacks a lot.

Trombonemetal, perhaps you need to play with some other practice mute brands?
As Pre59 mentioned, getting the right mute may be the reason you're not having a positive experience with a practice mute?
Since my wife is not a fan of the trombone(She suffers through my guitar and singing practice no worries) I primarily use the practice mute almost 100% of the time at home. At band practice, we all go through the same warm up procedure, so there's really no need to have the practice mute there.

ttf_Pre59 · Post by **ttf_Pre59** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:54 am

I use a practice mute right up to the point that I walk out of the door before a gig, and it's how you make the transition back to playing open that makes the difference.

ttf_tanstaafl · Post by **ttf_tanstaafl** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:07 am

Quote from: Pre59 on Oct 31, 2017, 01:54AMI use a practice mute right up to the point that I walk out of the door before a gig, and it's how you make the transition back to playing open that makes the difference.
What I'm trying to work out is the technical reason that it does make a difference? Is it just as someone above said, you need to play a few really loud notes to get your lip working properly, and the mute helps you do that without setting off every dog in a five mile radius?
Cue experiment...

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:03 am

Downside of a practice mute... you don't hear your true tone so it's easy to be lazy on the "vowel" you form with your tongue and throat.

If I'm using my ssshhmute I find myself wandering into an "oy" sound... tonguing with "toy", "doy"... rather than my preferred "tah" and "dah". If the mute weren't there "oy" would sound obviously bad but the mute covers up the difference.

My Humes & Berg practice mute has a much less focused, less musical sound than the ssshhmute but it seems to allow more vowel difference to survive and give me better feedback on what I'm doing.

For that reason I prefer it for my first 10 minutes of warmup where I need to get my lips moving and not give up on the trombone.

ttf_davdud101 · Post by **ttf_davdud101** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:03 am

Quote from: robcat2075 on Oct 31, 2017, 07:03AMDownside of a practice mute... you don't hear your true tone so it's easy to be lazy on the "vowel" you form with your tongue and throat.

Other downside of course being (probably mentioned already) suffering/non-useful low range for most folks and intonation changes in some areas

ttf_bonenick · Post by **ttf_bonenick** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:15 am

Forget the practice mutes (or almost)

Do whisper tones instead (you can do it on trombone as well...)
https://youtu.be/jztGQW7fml8

ttf_Pre59 · Post by **ttf_Pre59** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:07 am

Quote from: tanstaafl on Oct 31, 2017, 03:07AMWhat I'm trying to work out is the technical reason that it does make a difference? Is it just as someone above said, you need to play a few really loud notes to get your lip working properly, and the mute helps you do that without setting off every dog in a five mile radius?
Cue experiment...

I use a practice mute because of the choices that I've made about where I want to live. It's fair to say that I'm not conservative in what and how I practice, but it works for me. I've been playing for over 50 years now, and I reckon that if you haven't got an appropriate practice routine sorted by then, well...

Even if I didn't NEED to use one, I still would from time to time, even if it's just to create a little variation.

ttf_SilverBone · Post by **ttf_SilverBone** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:46 am

I like using a practice mute for warming up.

The best thing about practice mutes is how good playing the trombone feels when you take them out.

ttf_SilverBone · Post by **ttf_SilverBone** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:46 am

I like using a practice mute for warming up.

The best thing about practice mutes is how good playing the trombone feels when you take them out.