How to be the leader in your section

ttf_Nanook · Post by **ttf_Nanook** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:00 pm

My granddaughter plays trumpet and has moved into middle school in her first jazz band. While she is only in the 6th grade she is playing at a 9th grade level. She says the director is pointing to her with his criticisms of her section, and she asked me how to get the rest of the players to follow her lead (they are often out of time). She is a leader type, but she feels intimidated by the older 8th graders, I get the peer pressure. Any advice would be appreciated, I told her this is a challenging situation, and to keep playing her best and set a good example...I thought I'd ask you guys.

Nanook

ttf_Le.Tromboniste · Post by **ttf_Le.Tromboniste** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:13 pm

Unless there's a formal leadership position, it's very delicate to try to lead a section. You can show leadership by preaching by example of course but giving oral indications to the section is kind of a big no no. Lots of things that are okay and even expected from, say, an orchestra principal or a big band section lead will be inappropriate and received negatively by colleagues if coming from someone perceived as a random person in the section.

Best would be to talk to the band director to clarify things. If he directs cues at her and expects her to act as the lead then there has to be a clear "chain of command" and she has to actually be the lead officially. Even then the other older kids might not like that.

Otherwise, she can try to have a leaders attitude and be solid and try to demonstrate through her playing but not really much more.

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:48 pm

Quote from: Nanook on Nov 01, 2017, 08:00PM She says the director is pointing to her with his criticisms of her section, and she asked me how to get the rest of the players to follow her lead...

How about if, next time he points to her, she very earnestly asks, "Is it just me that is the problem?"

If he says, "no, it's the whole section," she should reply with,

Option A: "OK; however, pointing to me each time doesn't communicate that to the whole section. It makes them think they are NOT the problem."

Option B: "Since you are pointing to me, what should I do to change the whole section?"

Actually rehearse this dialog with her, with you playing the part of the director so that she is comfortable saying these sentences.

On the other hand, if he says, "yes, it's just you" then she knows it's her and needs to fix something.

ttf_watermailonman · Post by **ttf_watermailonman** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:27 am

Quote from: Nanook on Nov 01, 2017, 08:00PMMy granddaughter plays trumpet and has moved into middle school in her first jazz band. While she is only in the 6th grade she is playing at a 9th grade level. She says the director is pointing to her with his criticisms of her section, and she asked me how to get the rest of the players to follow her lead (they are often out of time). She is a leader type, but she feels intimidated by the older 8th graders, I get the peer pressure. Any advice would be appreciated, I told her this is a challenging situation, and to keep playing her best and set a good example...I thought I'd ask you guys.

Nanook

This is a problem that anyone at any level can have. A conductor that points at the wrong player. It has happened to me. It could even be the wrong section.

Once a conductor gave "us" the hand repetedly and we played softer and softer to a point I said to the others we should just pretend we were playing. We still got both the hand and the "angry eye".

I then raised my hand and asked the conductor very politely if that hand was meant to us because we played really soft. "Yes! Get googles" he replied, and not very politely. It did not help to play the softest we could which was "nothing". Then later he noticed we did not play and got angry and frustrated because of that too. I think he mixed up things and what he really heard was the four french horns who sat in another direction. It was the last time I ever played in that orchestra for double reasons

As the leader of the section you will only succeed to lead if you get the respect of the other players in the section. They must like what you are doing, and you must like what they are doing. If this is not the case then everything will be a struggle. If it is working you could reason about how to make the section play better. You could then begin to tell the others about your ideas. To do that successfully you must also pick up any good ideas coming from the other section members. To play music in a section is not a one-man-show and it is not to show off. The best guy may be the bass trombone player. Make sure you listen to the othes and meet them with respect. The others are not there just so you can learn how to play first.

In any case you can only succeed as a team when/if you become that team. When you reach that state then everything will be easier.

If skills between players are too different or if players don't like each other then the section has a problem. I think all players in a section need to be at approximately the same level. It can not work if one player is an accademic former semi pro that practice hours every day and another rarely touches his instrument between rehearsals. It will never be a happy section. A situation like that needs some changes. If the conductor points at the best player and tell him to take care of things it might be only two chioces:

1. Make the conductor aware of the problem and let him take care of it. Might be to have the less skilled replaced or give him a month to fix his playing if doable. If he is doing hard work and is making progress but still not at resonable level the conductor could take into consideration to give him yet another month. Players must be told and aware of the problem the bad playing or bad attitude is causing. This way of solving the problem might take some time.
2. Leave the orchesta to find a better orchestra.

These advices I would give to a high school student or to any grand dougher at any level in the same situation.

/Tom

ttf_EdGrissom · Post by **ttf_EdGrissom** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:28 am

Maybe she is the only one that watches the conductor and he focuses his attention on her because of it. I was a band director for a long time and always knew which players I could count on to be watching me. I would key in on them for tempo, dynamics, etc. Like anything in life, if you are dependable you get extra responsibilities!!!!!!!

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:03 am

I was in a group recently that stood for rehearsals where I played the lead part but the "section leader" was always the tallest person present that evening in the section. It so happened one evening when the conductor was giving the section instruction that the tallest person didn't want to be the "section leader", so he asked the conductor if he was going to tell the lead player (me) that instruction as well. I thought it was pretty funny b/c I didn't want to be the "section leader" either.

...Geezer

ttf_vegasbound · Post by **ttf_vegasbound** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:12 am

Q How many trumpet players does it take to change a light bulb?

A 4 one to change it and 3 others to say how much better they could have done it!

Trumpet sections do not think, or operate the way we trombonists do, the leader is usually the 1st or principal trumpet sometimes seniority comes into the mix, if you or your granddaughter have concerns that she is getting the looks and or criticism from the conductor/MD then speak to that person, it may be as others have suggested but a quiet word before or after rehearsal maybe required.

ttf_svenlarsson · Post by **ttf_svenlarsson** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:21 am

Well, in a profesional band the leader i responsible for the section and is payed for that. And if nessecary the leader may tell the section how to play.
But this is not a pro band. But the director points at her beacause she is the leader. That is not really fair, she is probably the best player, but she is not ready to tell the older players.
I think she should talk to the director about it, he/she may not understand that she feels unceura when she get pointed at when she think she is playing as good as possible. The director may not understand the problem being the lead and the youngest player. That is not a problem when you are older, but now it can be. An older leadplayer are responsible for the section, but she may not be ready for that.
Ask the director how to behave.
The director may not be so experinced to really hear what is happening, who is playing correct and who is not? That is not very easy to hear for most directors. It is normal for a director to adress the leader of the section though, but talk to the director! Before the rehersal!

ttf_svenlarsson · Post by **ttf_svenlarsson** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:23 am

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Nov 02, 2017, 04:03AMI was in a group recently that stood for rehearsals where I played the lead part but the "section leader" was always the tallest person present that evening in the section. It so happened one evening when the conductor was giving the section instruction that the tallest person didn't want to be the "section leader", so he asked the conductor if he was going to tell the lead player (me) that instruction as well. I thought it was pretty funny b/c I didn't want to be the "section leader" either.

...Geezer

Well if you play the lead you are the section leader, like it or not.

ttf_Nanook · Post by **ttf_Nanook** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:27 am

Quote from: vegasbound on Nov 02, 2017, 04:12AMQ How many trumpet players does it take to change a light bulb?

A 4 one to change it and 3 others to say how much better they could have done it!

Thanks for the replies and in some cases humor as well...It sounds like he is pointing to the proper section and giving specific instructions" your entire section is out of time" I asked a few adult semi pro trumpet players who had this director when they were in school...They liked him and said he was tough...They also suggested she hang around them for a few hours to get the trumpet attitude... I relayed the tough love to her, and she gets it...I'll pass on the tactful confrontation of the director to her so she can better understand her role...I remember how stressful school can be, personally I wouldn't want to repeat it, even thou I did pretty well in school...
Thanks again crew..
Nanook

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:24 pm

All you have to do is be consistent and in tune. Play staccatos, legatos, tenutos, etc. the same. If you have varied articulations ore are inconsistent it can be hard to follow. Consequently, if you aren't lead its your job to follow!

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:24 pm

All you have to do is be consistent and in tune. Play staccatos, legatos, tenutos, etc. the same. If you have varied articulations ore are inconsistent it can be hard to follow. Consequently, if you aren't lead its your job to follow!