Hello and question about a "mouthpiece book"

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:42 pm

Hello everyone. New here, first post.

After 20yrs away from playing trombone (or anything but the radio) I've decided to get back into playing. Just bought a shiny new Bach Strad 42BO and start taking lessons in a week.

I played for about 10yrs, including completing roughly half of a double major in education and performance. By no means am I where I used to be so long ago, but I'm excited that I still remember so much and don't necessarily sound terrible.

It's really cool to be getting back into it here in 2018. There's so much (too much!) information on the Internet and youtube -- things that didn't exist when I started back in the late 80s.

Along those lines I'm curious if there's a book or pamphlet or something out there that explains all the various components of mouthpieces along with talking a bit about the supposed pros and cons of various brands, sizes, etc?

When I was playing/studying I don't really remember mouthpieces being a thing I cared about. As I remember, my teacher one day gave me a new one and said "use this one now", so I did.

Anyways, I'd just like to learn a little bit more about them and what makes them different.

Thank you so much for your time!

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:06 pm

I don't know about a book that compares different brands, but there is the Bach Mouthpiece Manual:

https://www.bachbrass.com/application/files/4614/8521/7763/AV2BA901_Original_1889_web.pdf

Some of it is a bit dated, and the descriptions tend to make everything seem idyllic.

Most of us play on something between a Bach 6.5 AL to a Bach 4 (Schilke 50 to Schilke 52).

If you still have your old mouthpiece, use it.

Worst case is you will discover after a few weeks or months that you need something else.

ttf_drater421 · Post by **ttf_drater421** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:34 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Jan 21, 2018, 04:06PMI don't know about a book that compares different brands, but there is the Bach Mouthpiece Manual:

https://www.bachbrass.com/application/files/4614/8521/7763/AV2BA901_Original_1889_web.pdf

Some of it is a bit dated, and the descriptions tend to make everything seem idyllic.

Most of us play on something between a Bach 6.5 AL to a Bach 4 (Schilke 50 to Schilke 52).

If you still have your old mouthpiece, use it.

Worst case is you will discover after a few weeks or months that you need something else.

Thanks, I'll take a look at that PDF. I appreciate it.

I don't have anything from back in the day. Starting over with all new equipment, books, etc.

Because I don't know any better I bought a Denis Wick DW3180-6BS because it looks cool. It doesn't arrive until Tuesday so I can't say anything about it yet. However, I'm sure the 6.5A that came with the horn will do me fine for a long time.

ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist · Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:28 pm

The only two Wick mouthpieces I played for an extended period were the 9BS and the 6BS. I believe its a fine mouthpiece if you enjoy their rim design which people find a little flat or narrow. I find it comfortable and I used them for pretty long playing periods.

With your eyes closed have a colleague switch your mouthpieces and do some blind testing to see which is most in the pocket for you. If youre anything like most of us here you will catch a serious disease where you are tempted to buy or try all mouthpieces. Its either very costly or very enlightening. Either way it may never be cured.

ttf_drater421 · Post by **ttf_drater421** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:39 pm

Quote from: Full Pedal Trombonist on Jan 21, 2018, 05:28PMIf youre anything like most of us here you will catch a serious disease where you are tempted to buy or try all mouthpieces. Its either very costly or very enlightening. Either way it may never be cured.

Ha! I'll do my best to avoid this. Having never really given mouthpieces any thought, I don't (yet) really care about trying every one ever made. I'm just curious about their constituent parts, really.

BGuttman's PDF link to the Bach mouthpiece brochure was pretty enlightening, actually.

ttf_Roscotrombone · Post by **ttf_Roscotrombone** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:46 am

Quote from: drater421 on Jan 21, 2018, 03:42PMJust bought a shiny new Bach Strad 42BO and start taking lessons in a week.

Hi can I just point out that if you've bought a Bach 42B0 then the DW 6BS you've ordered won't fit as it's for small/medium bores. You need the 6BL.

Sorry if that's burst a small bubble but better to find out now!

Ross

ttf_Kingsk1117 · Post by **ttf_Kingsk1117** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:19 am

Pickett Brass makes an interesting app that compares many different mouthpieces you might want to look at for similar mouthpieces.
https://www.pickettblackburn.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=37

ttf_drater421 · Post by **ttf_drater421** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:04 pm

Quote from: Roscotrombone on Jan 22, 2018, 01:46AM
Hi can I just point out that if you've bought a Bach 42B0 then the DW 6BS you've ordered won't fit as it's for small/medium bores. You need the 6BL.

Sorry if that's burst a small bubble but better to find out now!

Ross

Shoot. Thanks for the heads up. I'll refuse delivery when it arrives tomorrow and Amazon will just take it back!

ttf_drater421 · Post by **ttf_drater421** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:55 pm

Quote from: Kingsk1117 on Jan 22, 2018, 10:19AMPickett Brass makes an interesting app that compares many different mouthpieces you might want to look at for similar mouthpieces.
https://www.pickettblackburn.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=37

Oh neat. Thanks for the link!

ttf_MikeyBonez · Post by **ttf_MikeyBonez** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:05 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Jan 21, 2018, 04:06PMI don't know about a book that compares different brands, but there is the Bach Mouthpiece Manual:

https://www.bachbrass.com/application/files/4614/8521/7763/AV2BA901_Original_1889_web.pdf

Looking through the brochure, it's dumb question time: My Conn 88H has a thicker shafted mouthpiece than my Conn tenor model does. So obviously there are at least two diameters, are there more? I have a 6 1/2AL for the 88H, I'm guessing that is large shank?

Sorry, but this is the beginner's forum

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:22 pm

Most trombone mouthpieces come with two sized shanks.

Small shank fits most student horns and anything up to Medium Bore.

Large shank fits large bore and bass trombones. Large bore is 0.547" and a Conn 88H is one.

At one time Conn had an unusual shank for the 88H and bass trombones. We generally call it "Remington" after the mouthpiece that was supplied with Conn 88H trombones in the past. It's actually a taper designed by Brown and Sharpe. Most trombones use another taper called Morse. If your 88H is newer than 10 years old it's unlikely to have this shank.

There are also some trombones that use other shank sizes but you are unlikely to find any of them unless you buy a very old instrument.

Some mouthpiece sizes are only available in one shank size or the other. Some are available in both.

If you have a small shank mouthpiece and a large shank trombone you can buy an adapter to mate them. The results aren't as good as a properly sized mouthpiece shank, but it will work in a pinch.

Hope this helps.

ttf_MikeyBonez · Post by **ttf_MikeyBonez** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:13 am

Quote from: BGuttman on Jan 24, 2018, 12:22PMMost trombone mouthpieces come with two sized shanks.

Small shank fits most student horns and anything up to Medium Bore.

Large shank fits large bore and bass trombones. Large bore is 0.547" and a Conn 88H is one.

At one time Conn had an unusual shank for the 88H and bass trombones. We generally call it "Remington" after the mouthpiece that was supplied with Conn 88H trombones in the past. It's actually a taper designed by Brown and Sharpe. Most trombones use another taper called Morse. If your 88H is newer than 10 years old it's unlikely to have this shank.

There are also some trombones that use other shank sizes but you are unlikely to find any of them unless you buy a very old instrument.

Some mouthpiece sizes are only available in one shank size or the other. Some are available in both.

If you have a small shank mouthpiece and a large shank trombone you can buy an adapter to mate them. The results aren't as good as a properly sized mouthpiece shank, but it will work in a pinch.

Hope this helps.

Thanks so much. My 88H is 55 years old, so I'm wondering if I have a Remington shank? I would assume not, since I use a Bach 6 1/2 AL mouthpiece. It was given to me by another trombonist whose mouthpiece I would swear was the size of a salad bowl

The horn also has a brass adapter for the smaller mouthpiece.

I'm not at a level yet where mouthpiece options would be a worthwhile investigation. Right now I bounce around between mouthpieces and horns, seeing where my path to excellence lies.

ttf_Doug Elliott · Post by **ttf_Doug Elliott** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:26 am

Your Conn would have the old taper, however most of those 88H's have been used with standard taper mouthpieces for so long that the receiver has somewhat conformed, but it would still play better with the original proper taper because the fit does matter.

ttf_MikeyBonez · Post by **ttf_MikeyBonez** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:02 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Jan 24, 2018, 12:22PM
At one time Conn had an unusual shank for the 88H and bass trombones. We generally call it "Remington" after the mouthpiece that was supplied with Conn 88H trombones in the past. It's actually a taper designed by Brown and Sharpe.

Ah, yes! I have that mouthpiece. Says "Remington" and "Connstellation" on it.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:41 pm

Quote from: MikeyBonez on Jan 27, 2018, 05:02PMAh, yes! I have that mouthpiece. Says "Remington" and "Connstellation" on it.

I have a Connstellation Remington that is small shank. It was provided with a lot of the medium bore instruments at the time the B&S Taper Remington was provided with the 88H. My Connstellation Remington is used with my Conn 40H (Ballroom TIS) and it works great there.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:41 pm

Quote from: MikeyBonez on Jan 27, 2018, 05:02PMAh, yes! I have that mouthpiece. Says "Remington" and "Connstellation" on it.

I have a Connstellation Remington that is small shank. It was provided with a lot of the medium bore instruments at the time the B&S Taper Remington was provided with the 88H. My Connstellation Remington is used with my Conn 40H (Ballroom TIS) and it works great there.