Bass Trombone - Single bore or Dual bore slide

ttf_tbathras · Post by **ttf_tbathras** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:08 pm

I'm just curious to see the distribution of results. I've got both a .562 and .562/.578, with the dual bore being on my primary. I'm thinking of trying the single bore on for size for a few weeks, see what difference I notice, so that got me wondering about what the "masses" are using. I've been using the large slide only because it's a little faster than the .562 one I have, but I think I can correct that with a little wright's and some elbow grease.

This is supposed to be just a "state of the slides", if you will. Not a debate over what's "better". Feel free to comment on why you play what you play, though.

Let the polling begin!

ttf_matto · Post by **ttf_matto** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:14 pm

Woohoo - first!

I'm a tenor player, but I've been called upon to do a lot of bass doubling in the last two years. I feel like I'm working my way into a straight .562, but for now the dual-bore .547-.562 gives me a little extra resistance to blow against in the trigger range. I work with a .562 slide, but just can't quite get the response that I want out of it yet.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:34 pm

My bass trombone, a King 7B, only came in single bore 0.562"

ttf_Tbonedude · Post by **ttf_Tbonedude** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:44 pm

I use a King 5B as a bass for the few situations I'm called upon to do that. It's single bore 0.547"

ttf_Burgerbob · Post by **ttf_Burgerbob** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:51 pm

I've used both a .562 and .562\.578 a fair amount.

On the Shires, the dual bore slide was handily better than the single bore.

Now that I'm on a Bach again, the single bore is all I need.

ttf_EWadie99 · Post by **ttf_EWadie99** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:09 pm

I have encountered two types a dual bore of .562 / .578 (Getzen 1062) and a single bore of .562 (Benge 290).

I honestly prefer single bore slides but the dual bore slide is doing fine for me at this moment.

ttf_bigbassbone1 · Post by **ttf_bigbassbone1** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:15 pm

I played on a dependent Edwards bass with dual bore slide for many years until 6 months ago when i bought a custom independent bach 50 for a few reasons. My bach has progressive bore hagmanns as well as better bracing and a cool system where you can turn it into a single valve bass. When i bought it, it was being sold with a lightweight 50 slide with removable leadpipe. Before i paid for it i played it in my usual section as well as with a few tuba players and took the lightweight slide, a normal bach 50 slide and my own edwards dual bore slide to try out in every context.
The Edwards slide with the bach was incomparibly better in every way, resonance, clarity, blend are just a few things that spring to mind which were very obviously better. I didnt buy the bach slide the instrument came with, i use my old edwards dual bore slide and am very happy with how it plays.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:17 pm

I'm doubling and using a 547/562 when I play bass now but I'm thinking a 562 slide might suit me a little better for my playing.

ttf_pedro.bassclef · Post by **ttf_pedro.bassclef** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:33 pm

I'm curious, which models offers 547/562 ? I would like to try this someday.

ttf_tbathras · Post by **ttf_tbathras** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:41 pm

Quote from: pedro.bassclef on Jan 16, 2017, 03:33PMI'm curious, which models offers 547/562 ? I would like to try this someday.

Of the top of my head I can think of Shires, Edwards and Conn. You'd have to special order the Conn or buy used parts. (like a 62H bell with an SL4762 slide)

ttf_sfboner · Post by **ttf_sfboner** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:51 pm

Quote from: Burgerbob on Jan 16, 2017, 12:51PMOn the Shires, the dual bore slide was handily better than the single bore.

I found that too, and it really surprised me. Tenor is my primary instrument and I play a .562 slide on a Shires bass. But I've tried two different dual bore Shires slides on it and paradoxically, I found the higher register much easier on the dual bore.

ttf_Peter Eiden · Post by **ttf_Peter Eiden** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:02 pm

I've been playing an Edwards bass for close to 25 years, and for most of that time on their dual bore bass slide with the nickel crook and oversleeves. (B-DBN, .562/.578). It's made me very happy.

About 15 or so years ago, I picked up a used Edwards dual bore tenor slide (T-DB, I think). It's a .547/.562, with a bass crook, and I enjoyed using it when I was playing with an orchestra and wanted to match better with an alto on first. I've since picked up a tenor bell section that I occasionally use with that slide.

For Christmas, I picked up a straight .562 slide, and have been playing on it at home. I'm looking forward to getting some field testing in when a community band I play in starts up again next week.

ttf_BackBone · Post by **ttf_BackBone** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:15 pm

Quote from: tbathras on Jan 16, 2017, 12:08PMI'm just curious to see the distribution of results. I've got both a .562 and .562/.578, with the dual bore being on my primary. I'm thinking of trying the single bore on for size for a few weeks, see what difference I notice, so that got me wondering about what the "masses" are using. I've been using the large slide only because it's a little faster than the .562 one I have, but I think I can correct that with a little wright's and some elbow grease.

This is supposed to be just a "state of the slides", if you will. Not a debate over what's "better". Feel free to comment on why you play what you play, though.

Let the polling begin!

Are you using the dual bore on your 181?

ttf_tbathras · Post by **ttf_tbathras** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:21 pm

Quote from: BackBone on Jan 17, 2017, 04:15PMAre you using the dual bore on your 181?

Nope... I no longer have the 181... need to update my profile pic. I have two Shires rigs now, you can see the specs in my profile.

On a side note, I did use the Shires single bore slide on the 181 bell and it was a vast improvement. It was only friction fit, though.

ttf_kbiggs · Post by **ttf_kbiggs** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:18 am

At one time I was committed to the arms race. I was using an Edwards with a dual bore slide. My current horn is a customized Bach 50 with a single-bore standard weight slide. I find it's easier to maintain a characteristic sound in a wider dynamic range (more focused pianissimos and fuller fortes without a "wall of sound" effect), and it's easier to play longer phrases.

ttf_tbathras · Post by **ttf_tbathras** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:04 am

Quote from: kbiggs on Jan 18, 2017, 08:18AMI find it's easier to maintain a characteristic sound in a wider dynamic range (more focused pianissimos and fuller fortes without a "wall of sound" effect), and it's easier to play longer phrases.

This is kind of where I'm finding myself now. With so many options, it sure is a journey.

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:56 am

Am I correct that the bell section of a dual bore trombone must match the larger bore of the slide or are people mixing those things without need to match them?

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:07 am

Quote from: robcat2075 on Jan 18, 2017, 10:56AMAm I correct that the bell section of a dual bore trombone must match the larger bore of the slide or are people mixing those things without need to match them?

The slides of the Getzen 1062 (dual bore) and 1052 (single bore) are interchangeable (yes, I know there are other differences between the models). I would suspect that others may be as well. There is no dual bore slide that fits my King 7B (unless I have it custom made).

ttf_Burgerbob · Post by **ttf_Burgerbob** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:08 pm

Quote from: robcat2075 on Jan 18, 2017, 10:56AMAm I correct that the bell section of a dual bore trombone must match the larger bore of the slide or are people mixing those things without need to match them?

Edwards horns are all larger in the tuning slide and bell than Bach or Shires counterparts.

Shires are not that large and work with either.

People have success with Bach bell sections and dual bore slides.

It's not necessary to really match, I think, but I have no definitive answer.

ttf_tbathras · Post by **ttf_tbathras** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:11 pm

Quote from: robcat2075 on Jan 18, 2017, 10:56AMAm I correct that the bell section of a dual bore trombone must match the larger bore of the slide or are people mixing those things without need to match them?

That's what I used to think, but with Shires and Edwards/Getzen, you can flip between the 2 different slides. I think the tenon and receiver are already oversized.

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:27 pm

What difference is it between these two systems? I don't think I ever tried dual bore.

Leif

ttf_Peter Eiden · Post by **ttf_Peter Eiden** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:16 pm

Quote from: tbathras on Jan 18, 2017, 01:11PMThat's what I used to think, but with Shires and Edwards/Getzen, you can flip between the 2 different slides. I think the tenon and receiver are already oversized.

Agree -- my 547/562 Tenor slide fits just as well with my bass or tenor bell. Certainly they seem interchangeable across the Edwards bass and large tenor lines.

ttf_Burgerbob · Post by **ttf_Burgerbob** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:31 pm

They all have the same tenon/slide receivers, but I don't think that's what Robert was asking.

ttf_bigbassbone1 · Post by **ttf_bigbassbone1** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:04 pm

Quote from: savio on Jan 18, 2017, 01:27PMWhat difference is it between these two systems? I don't think I ever tried dual bore.

Leif

The difference is of course subjective..... some players say that the dual bore bass slide (like an edwards one) is more work to play, creates an unfocused sound and does not sound good in the high register.
I personally (as well as many others) find none of those things to be true. As i said earlier in the thread i have an edwards dual bore slide in my bach and it very OBVIOUSLY out plays any bach slide i have tried with it. The most immediate difference is the sound, i find it is considerably more resonant and rich sounding. For me, attacks have much more clarity and i feel its easier to get a quality sound and attack in soft dynamics. I also notice very little difference in how the high register feels... i think that has more to do with mouthpiece choice and practice!

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:54 pm

If the bore of the slide doesn't match the bore where it meets the bell section then you've got a sudden discontinuity that's probably bigger than any other disturbances that are more hotly debated... the valves, tuning in slide, the water key...

Do you you actually put a slide with a larger bore to a bell with a smaller bore?

ttf_tbathras · Post by **ttf_tbathras** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:05 pm

Quote from: robcat2075 on Jan 18, 2017, 03:54PMIf the bore of the slide doesn't match the bore where it meets the bell section then you've got a sudden discontinuity that's probably bigger than any other disturbances that are more hotly debated... the valves, tuning in slide, the water key...

Do you you actually put a slide with a larger bore to a bell with a smaller bore?

The outside of the tenons are all the same size, so as far as what mates to the bell, it's identical. not sure if maybe the taper inside the tenon is different, but at the very end it's all the same. There's no sudden 'step'.

ttf_tbathras · Post by **ttf_tbathras** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:05 pm

Quote from: robcat2075 on Jan 18, 2017, 03:54PMIf the bore of the slide doesn't match the bore where it meets the bell section then you've got a sudden discontinuity that's probably bigger than any other disturbances that are more hotly debated... the valves, tuning in slide, the water key...

Do you you actually put a slide with a larger bore to a bell with a smaller bore?

The outside of the tenons are all the same size, so as far as what mates to the bell, it's identical. not sure if maybe the taper inside the tenon is different, but at the very end it's all the same. There's no sudden 'step'.