custom trombone

ttf_mark fellows · Post by **ttf_mark fellows** » Fri May 05, 2017 11:31 am

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-Modified-Bach-Tenor-Trombone/122481134807?_trksid=p5411.c100170.m2943&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140131123831%26meid%3Db8520bc4de81481fae70c751396df19b%26pid%3D100170%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D122481134807

As wayne Carina would say- WOW

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Fri May 05, 2017 12:01 pm

How do you pull the F tuning slide??? Looks like a Monette converted Bach

ttf_BillO · Post by **ttf_BillO** » Fri May 05, 2017 12:31 pm

Ugh!

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Fri May 05, 2017 12:43 pm

Dat slide cook, thoh

ttf_Blackthorne · Post by **ttf_Blackthorne** » Fri May 05, 2017 12:47 pm

I think I'd much rather look at the F attachment tubing than whatever that is.

Also:

QuoteSome wear and some dings on the bottom slide crook.
Yeah, just a little wear. It looks like it tried to hit itself with a hammer there to put itself out of its misery.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Fri May 05, 2017 1:40 pm

They claim its a bach.. what model??? 36? has a narrow crook... narrow flat crook evidently that I didn't notcie the first time around

ttf_Dukesboneman · Post by **ttf_Dukesboneman** » Fri May 05, 2017 1:45 pm

It looks like Gold painted aliminum foil.
I guess you wouldn`t have to wear your tin foil hat to that gig

ttf_Blackthorne · Post by **ttf_Blackthorne** » Fri May 05, 2017 2:41 pm

Quote from: Matt K on May 05, 2017, 01:40PMThey claim its a bach.. what model??? 36? has a narrow crook... narrow flat crook evidently that I didn't notcie the first time around

I'm hoping it's an Omega or some other "intermediate" line Bach. Doing that to a Strad would be a sacrilege.

ttf_greenbean · Post by **ttf_greenbean** » Fri May 05, 2017 7:21 pm

Pretty sure it is a Conn 50H.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Fri May 05, 2017 7:28 pm

Got a reversed tuning slide and no tuning slide brace. Also a string linkage. Not like any Bach I've ever seen.

I don't think it's wrapped with tin foil; probably a brass sheet that has been "patterned" with a ball peen hammer.

ttf_greenbean · Post by **ttf_greenbean** » Fri May 05, 2017 8:03 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on May 05, 2017, 07:28PM...
I don't think it's wrapped with tin foil; probably a brass sheet that has been "patterned" with a ball peen hammer.

^ This.

This horn has been on consignment at A&G Music in Oakland for a few weeks. Kinda cool, actually - in a Mad Max sort of way. Great for keg parties, I would think. The work was done BAC.

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Fri May 05, 2017 8:25 pm

Quote from: greenbean on May 05, 2017, 08:03PMThe work was done BAC.Why does that not come as a surprise?

Any idea what the base instrument is?

I suspect the handslide crook is that way on purpose.

ttf_mr.deacon · Post by **ttf_mr.deacon** » Fri May 05, 2017 11:41 pm

Why would somebody want to hide the F attachment section haha.

I think a better question is why the tech who did the work didn't tell this guy he was an idiot for wanting the work done!

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Sun May 07, 2017 4:41 am

Hah, I *almost* said "BAC" instead of "Monette" in my original post. Yeah, that's an interesting design for sure!!

ttf_elmsandr · Post by **ttf_elmsandr** » Sun May 07, 2017 5:24 am

Quote from: mr.deacon on May 05, 2017, 11:41PMWhy would somebody want to hide the F attachment section haha.

I think a better question is why the tech who did the work didn't tell this guy he was an idiot for wanting the work done!
I find that the money of idiots spends just as well as the money of professors at my local grocery.

Of course, I would probably charge extra on account of dragging my name into this stupidity, but that is just me.

Cheers,
Andy

ttf_bonenick · Post by **ttf_bonenick** » Sun May 07, 2017 5:35 am

Quote from: Matt K on Yesterday at 04:41 AMHah, I *almost* said "BAC" instead of "Monette" in my original post. Yeah, that's an interesting design for sure!!

Whatever you may think of Monette, he is an amazing craftsman and I have never seen or heard someone to be unhappy with his work. Sometimes his sound concept may not be exactly what one is looking for, but then nobody is forced to spent 10 000$ or plus and wait up to 18 months.

The price tag is often hard to swallow, but same can be said about Rath, Shires and many other custom brass artisans.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Sun May 07, 2017 5:43 am

Quote from: bonenick on Yesterday at 05:35 AMWhatever you may think of Monette, he is an amazing craftsman and I have never seen or heard someone to be unhappy with his work. Sometimes his sound concept may not be exactly what one is looking for, but then nobody is forced to spent 10 000$ or plus and wait up to 18 months.

The price tag is often hard to swallow, but same can be said about Rath, Shires and many other custom brass artisans.

Don't get me wrong, his horns are well built. I just think that some of them look utterly ridiculous. Ditto with BAC. There are just less Monette devotees here than BAC devotees to wrangle feathers

ttf_bonenick · Post by **ttf_bonenick** » Sun May 07, 2017 6:21 am

Quote from: Matt K on Yesterday at 05:43 AMDitto with BAC. There are just less Monette devotees here than BAC devotees to wrangle feathers

Well, I didn't want to bash any company, BAC included, though as far as I can see, the feedback on their services is mixed at best.

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Sun May 07, 2017 6:24 am

If you have a Monette horn in a section, regardless of the style of music, you really have TWO sections.

As for BAC, the Elliott Mason horn is unbelievably good, even though it looks dumb.

I played one of the prototypes that one of his former students had and I think it was the best non-legit horn I've ever played aside from the wire slide grip.

ttf_bonenick · Post by **ttf_bonenick** » Sun May 07, 2017 6:30 am

When it comes to section playing, competing with monette in a section is a tough job. You either get a whole section of it, or none at all.

As for BAC, I am sure that they sure do some really great stuff, but the negative feed-back regarding their restoration/customisation of other branded instruments really makes them look bad.

Personally, I don't mind the industrial look, though the Dizzy looking bells are a bit over the top IMHO.

The OP example was none of the above, just plain stupid

I wonder if he is going to find somebody stupid enough to buy that thing...

ttf_watermailonman · Post by **ttf_watermailonman** » Sun May 07, 2017 6:36 am

Why?

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Sun May 07, 2017 7:05 am

Quote from: bonenick on Yesterday at 06:30 AM
As for BAC, I am sure that they sure do some really great stuff, but the negative feed-back regarding their restoration/customisation of other branded instruments really makes them look bad.

I dunno ... have you seen the work BAC does on Williams horns? Those look great!

Of course the custom stained glass and weird art they do on bell sections to the possible detriment of the playability of someone else's instrument is just as dumb as the Monette lampshade trumpets they made for Wynton:

https://youtube.com/v/CZicKZOgPhI

When you call something "pimp my trombone", you know it's as much about the music as "Pimp My Ride" was about the performance of the cars. Actual pro drivers were laughing at the "pimps".

Then again ... Defeayo and Wynton can do whatever they want because they are both pros AND ... well I don't want to say it. See above.

ttf_bonenick · Post by **ttf_bonenick** » Sun May 07, 2017 7:57 am

I played some Monette horns, they may look weird at times, but they always do what they are supposed to. Certainly not a lamshade...They may not be everyone's cup of tea, but that's another conversation.

Stained glass and "weird" art projects are either oriented towards a certain type of customer or a point to prove (like Tylor with his Vulcan trumpet. It is designed to be weird and draw attention:

https://youtu.be/zCW_VOyxr5M

In other words, they do certain type of weird horns just to prove they can.

My point was about the bad reviews regarding repairs done by BAC which didn't seem to leave happy those who made the order. That's what undeniably gave BAC somewhat questionable reputation, not their own projects.

These videos are all staged, that's quite obvious. It is marketing. So are horns with the look of a history book or an art object - there seem to be a rising demand for horn obviously made for person X.

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Sun May 07, 2017 8:06 am

Whatever that is that is formed over the bell with shapes cut into it is like a lampshade.

That trumpet has a bell. And the bell has some kind of shroud surrounding it.

Perhaps, like a naked light bulb, the trumpet was too bright otherwise.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Sun May 07, 2017 8:24 am

Haha, I remember seeing that trumpet a while back. I rest my case. It may be the best playing trumpet in the world... but I would still think twice about being seen in public with it. And my horns are generally not pretty

ttf_bonenick · Post by **ttf_bonenick** » Sun May 07, 2017 8:27 am

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Yesterday at 08:06 AM

Whatever that is that is formed over the bell with shapes cut into it is like a lampshade.

That trumpet has a bell. And the bell has some kind of shroud surrounding it.

Perhaps, like a naked light bulb, the trumpet was too bright otherwise.

That's the double bell stuff...Courtois also did a similar trumpet, though not as heavily ornamented.

That was a trumpet created for a very specific event and artist - it is not something I would order either. But that doesn't mean it is pointless or stupid, I believe (I never played one, I know only of two made with that concept) that's an amazing horn, but certainly not an everyday axe. I also know only one performance when this horn was used, even people like Wynton have an everyday horn that look pretty normal compared to this

This is just a bit heavier than a standard heavyweight trumpet, visually the only difference being the larger bell.

I don't understand your negative feeling towards these horns.

On trombone however, "slightly heavier" can make a very big difference and can even create some real ergonomic challenges. I will be very curious to see how he (Dave Monette) tackle this when he tries to build a complete trombone (so far, as far as I can tell, he only created a small bore slide, which is still in prototype stage).

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Sun May 07, 2017 8:27 am

Quote from: watermailonman on Yesterday at 06:36 AMWhy?

Thats the question. Didnt look nice either, in my eyes...maybe it sounds better? Doubt it.

Leif

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Sun May 07, 2017 8:54 am

I mean, partially because I'm not big on showmanship. But also I just don't find it to be aesthetically pleasing. I like simpler designs that are primarily driven by function rather than form. So the engraving on Shires bells is fine but about as ornate as my preferences allow for.

ttf_bonenick · Post by **ttf_bonenick** » Sun May 07, 2017 9:09 am

Quote from: Matt K on Yesterday at 08:54 AMI mean, partially because I'm not big on showmanship. But also I just don't find it to be aesthetically pleasing. I like simpler designs that are primarily driven by function rather than form. So the engraving on Shires bells is fine but about as ornate as my preferences allow for.

It all boils to where you want to draw the attention of the public to. The ornamented horn is designed to draw the attention to itself (if you wish, call it pitching). No artist want that, though trumpet word has a long history of pulling out peculiar/weird design and looks.

The ornamented trumpet was made as a statement of the maker, something like: I can put all this stuff together and still maintain the original Monette concept and buil an excellent horn around it.

But if you have to play everyday on a certain horn, you don't want normally people to stare more at your horn than they actually listen to your music. That's absolutely legit. Unless you do some kind of brass horn freak show

ttf_Blackthorne · Post by **ttf_Blackthorne** » Sun May 07, 2017 9:24 am

Quote from: bonenick on Yesterday at 07:57 AMI played some Monette horns, they may look weird at times, but they always do what they are supposed to. Certainly not a lamshade...They may not be everyone's cup of tea, but that's another conversation.

Stained glass and "weird" art projects are either oriented towards a certain type of customer or a point to prove (like Tylor with his Vulcan trumpet. It is designed to be weird and draw attention:

https://youtu.be/zCW_VOyxr5M

In other words, they do certain type of weird horns just to prove they can.

My point was about the bad reviews regarding repairs done by BAC which didn't seem to leave happy those who made the order. That's what undeniably gave BAC somewhat questionable reputation, not their own projects.

These videos are all staged, that's quite obvious. It is marketing. So are horns with the look of a history book or an art object - there seem to be a rising demand for horn obviously made for person X.

I was wondering when someone would mention Taylor. Some of their custom shop horns make Monettes look plain.

Jason Harrelson has some pretty crazy trumpet designs as well. A lot of his more intricate designs are very similar to Monette's.

ttf_EWadie99 · Post by **ttf_EWadie99** » Sun May 07, 2017 9:50 am

Quote from: watermailonman on Yesterday at 06:36 AMWhy?

Your guess is as good as mine.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sun May 07, 2017 11:38 am

Dave Monette made a complete trombone a few years back. I think there were 5 of them. Larry Isaacson has one, Scott Hartman has one, and I'm not sure who has the others.

It didn't look like anything abnormal. Just a straight trombone (Monette apparently doesn't do rotary valves).

ttf_Baron von Bone · Post by **ttf_Baron von Bone** » Sun May 07, 2017 12:24 pm

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Yesterday at 06:24 AMAs for BAC, the Elliott Mason horn is unbelievably good, even though it looks dumb.
I think those are pretty sweet! Not real fond of the screw bell flare and I'd prefer to take the main cross brace down a notch, so to speak, but aside from that ... very nice! I wouldn't mind learning how they handle too. I'd definitely consider something along these lines if I weren't happy with what I've already got.

ttf_bonenick · Post by **ttf_bonenick** » Sun May 07, 2017 12:43 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Yesterday at 11:38 AMDave Monette made a complete trombone a few years back. I think there were 5 of them. Larry Isaacson has one, Scott Hartman has one, and I'm not sure who has the others.
BG,

It is not the first time I see you claiming this, but I have never managed to find any proof for this claim. So far I only saw mouthpieces and a prototype handslide for small bore, that was demonstrated in a video about a little less than an year ago.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sun May 07, 2017 1:15 pm

Quote from: bonenick on Yesterday at 12:43 PMBG,

It is not the first time I see you claiming this, but I have never managed to find any proof for this claim. So far I only saw mouthpieces and a prototype handslide for small bore, that was demonstrated in a video about a little less than an year ago.

I was taking lessons (as an adult) from Larry Isaacson when he got his. I saw it. Didn't get a chance to actually play it.

ttf_BillO · Post by **ttf_BillO** » Sun May 07, 2017 1:24 pm

That stupid looking brass cover does not look like it bulges up anywhere to allow for a Bach or Conn F-att wrap. Could it be one of those Olds that have a 'flat' wrap?. They also don't have a brace on the tuning slide.

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Sun May 07, 2017 1:42 pm

Quote from: BillO on Yesterday at 01:24 PMThat stupid looking brass cover does not look like it bulges up anywhere to allow for a Bach or Conn F-att wrap. Could it be one of those Olds that have a 'flat' wrap?. They also don't have a brace on the tuning slide.The rotor isn't right for a flat-wrap Olds - all of them that I've seen have solid linkages.

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Sun May 07, 2017 1:42 pm

Quote from: BillO on Yesterday at 01:24 PMThat stupid looking brass cover does not look like it bulges up anywhere to allow for a Bach or Conn F-att wrap. Could it be one of those Olds that have a 'flat' wrap?. They also don't have a brace on the tuning slide.The rotor isn't right for a flat-wrap Olds - all of them that I've seen have solid linkages.