Basic Military Training

ttf_TromboneConcerto · Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:20 am

Hi all,

A few month ago I won a job in my city's navy band. I just finished the lengthy application process, and my enrollment was last night. It was also the first day of my Unit-level basic training. I wasn't expecting basic to start right away, and it really tore me down emotionally.

Have any of you gone through basic? Do you have any tips you could share with me to help get me through this? I'm already feeling very scared and can't stop thinking about it.

Thanks in advance,
Kyle

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:37 am

The best advice I can give you is not to lose perspective. Basic will eventually end. It is easy to get caught up in it and lose your perspective. During my basic training I had to keep reminding myself that it would eventually be over and my normal life would resume.

Also remember that your drill sergeants DONT actually hate you, it only seems that way. They are just doing their job, and it is a tough job. They spend incredibly long hours for pretty low pay trying to turn civilians into military personnel in a very short amount of time. The easiest way to do this is by yelling

a lot
The name of the game is controlled stress. Just do your best, but realize that they will keep pushing because it is their job to do so.
Being concerned and a little scared is normal. This is a big change for everyone. You are going to have funny stories for your friends after it is all done, but they wont seem funny while they are happening.

Last and certainly not least: THINK LESS. Basic (at least U.S.army basic) is set up where you can get away with only saying yes or no for ten weeks. Go with the flow. A lot of it wont make sense but dont worry, go with it.
Good luck man. Go for the middle and you'll be fine.

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:44 am

Quote from: miabone on Mar 16, 2017, 06:37AMThe best advice I can give you is not to lose perspective. Basic will eventually end. It is easy to get caught up in it and lose your perspective. During my basic training I had to keep reminding myself that it would eventually be over and my normal life would resume.

Also remember that your drill sergeants DONT actually hate you, it only seems that way. They are just doing their job, and it is a tough job. They spend incredibly long hours for pretty low pay trying to turn civilians into military personnel in a very short amount of time. The easiest way to do this is by yelling

a lot
The name of the game is controlled stress. Just do your best, but realize that they will keep pushing because it is their job to do so.
Being concerned and a little scared is normal. This is a big change for everyone. You are going to have funny stories for your friends after it is all done, but they wont seem funny while they are happening.

Last and certainly not least: THINK LESS. Basic (at least U.S.army basic) is set up where you can get away with only saying yes or no for ten weeks. Go with the flow. A lot of it wont make sense but dont worry, go with it.
Good luck man. Go for the middle and you'll be fine.

Yep. Do what they tell you to do when they tell you to do it and do it with enthusiasm, but don't single yourself out.

Be wary of "deals" they might want to make with you for extending your service time. Those same "deals" can be struck at home after the pressure of basic training is over. I was in the National Guard and they tried repeatedly to offer me sweet incentives to transfer over to regular army. I thanked them respectfully for their offers and kept my head down. When I got home, I gave it more thought.

...Geezer

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:25 am

Is unit level basic training just prep stuff in your city getting you ready for actual basic training? If so ... you may be in for a surprise when you enlist and get shipped off to actual combat training. If you have computer or phone access at actual basic training, I'd be very surprised.

ttf_uncle duke · Post by **ttf_uncle duke** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:10 am

I remember when my best friend called me up after his Army basic was through. First words were like Man, this is the stupidest thing I've ever done. He ended up staying 7-8 years, non musician, a map maker and some other job/war veteran.

My brother in-law was a helicopter mechanic in the service and I worked with one war veteran who wanted to re-up when a reward for Gaddafi was made public. And he just turned 25.

I know of one Navy veteran who did his 20 years or so and retired before he was 40. I believe his toughest job these days may be deciding which avenue he wants to traverse when driving his new Ford Mustang. Just go for it and realize becoming a military brass player may be tough learning too.

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:19 am

Man, I really liked weapons training. I mean, like REALLY! What a treat that was; throwing a grenade, firing a bazooka, sniping with a 50-cal machine gun, launching mortar rounds, etc...

...Geezer

ttf_uncle duke · Post by **ttf_uncle duke** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:26 am

I remember my sister called me before Marine qualifying about M-16 sighting. She did real well though she never mentioned becoming a sniper to me afterwards. Glad she's a mother these days.

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:47 am

Quote from: uncle duke on Mar 16, 2017, 09:26AMI remember my sister called me before Marine qualifying about M-16 sighting. She did real well though she never mentioned becoming a sniper to me afterwards. Glad she's a mother these days.

She probably didn't mention becoming a sniper because it has been only about a year since females have been eligible to become snipers in the US military. To the best of my knowledge, there are as yet no female snipers in the US Military.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:53 am

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Mar 16, 2017, 09:47AMShe probably didn't mention becoming a sniper because it has been only about a year since females have been eligible to become snipers in the US military. To the best of my knowledge, there are as yet no female snipers in the US Military.

Doesn't mean she couldn't have qualified as one (even if never deployed). I've known some really sharp-eyed females. We used to hire them as product inspectors.

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:24 am

Quote from: BGuttman on Mar 16, 2017, 09:53AMDoesn't mean she couldn't have qualified as one (even if never deployed). I've known some really sharp-eyed females. We used to hire them as product inspectors.

Sniper is an infantry MOS position that requires additional schooling and training on top of infantry schooling -- until recently you could not be a female infantryman. Expert Rifleman, Sharpshooter, and Marksman are qualifications. Maybe she said Sharpshooter

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:43 am

I just saw that the OP is in Canada. Haha, my bad.

I don't know jack about basic training in canada.

ttf_uncle duke · Post by **ttf_uncle duke** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:11 am

She said Marksman at first then Expert when she left - not a sniper. I did not notice Canadian by the o.p. either, oops.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:18 am

I'll bet there are some things in the Canadian military that are the same as America. The stress, the intimidation, the constant pushing.

Kyle, keep your chin up and remember that it will all be over soon enough.

Do you have to do a Military School of Music like we do in the US?

ttf_timothy42b · Post by **ttf_timothy42b** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:37 pm

I remember a theory that military band members shot well, because they released the shot like they released a note. Others who made the trigger pull more of a positive action had less success.

I dunno.

ttf_Woolworth · Post by **ttf_Woolworth** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:31 pm

No matter whether it's Canada or the U.S., the important thing to remember is that this is training, and they want you to do well. Don't be resistant or try to out-think your instructors. Do it their way without question. Military training is tough but it's temporary. Bandsmen are a little more "on the ball" than most other military occupations. You'll do fine.

This was almost 20 years ago! I usually shot 40 out of 40 and was always proud of this. Bandsmen frequently out-shot the infantry and artillery, and I was invited to join the state marksmanship unit (competitive shooters). Not my thing, so I declined.

ttf_Dan Hine · Post by **ttf_Dan Hine** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:28 pm

Quote from: timothy42b on Mar 16, 2017, 12:37PMI remember a theory that military band members shot well, because they released the shot like they released a note. Others who made the trigger pull more of a positive action had less success.

I dunno.

If anything I'd say it's:

1) We tend to be better at listening to direction and following instruction.
2) Breath control.
3) Experience repeating the SAME thing over and over. Putting shot after shot in the same place requires the same kind of consistency as performing music.

ttf_MikeBMiller · Post by **ttf_MikeBMiller** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:12 pm

Quote from: Woolworth on Mar 16, 2017, 01:31PMNo matter whether it's Canada or the U.S., the important thing to remember is that this is training, and they want you to do well. Don't be resistant or try to out-think your instructors. Do it their way without question. Military training is tough but it's temporary. Bandsmen are a little more "on the ball" than most other military occupations. You'll do fine.

This was almost 20 years ago! I usually shot 40 out of 40 and was always proud of this. Bandsmen frequently out-shot the infantry and artillery, and I was invited to join the state marksmanship unit (competitive shooters). Not my thing, so I declined.

I got 38 out of 40 once at ROTC camp in 1981. I always shot expert except for one time when the battalion commander picked my platoon (I was the platoon leader) for some sort of spot inspection. We had to go out and qualify and there was snow on the ground and I couldn't hardly see the target. I didn't even qualify that day, which was embarrassing to say the least.

ttf_TromboneConcerto · Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:44 am

Thank you all for your responses. After reading through these replies and talking with a few people who had already been through it, I feel a lot better.

Quote from: BGuttman on Mar 16, 2017, 11:18AMDo you have to do a Military School of Music like we do in the US?

Yes, we do! I will be going there after my basic is finished.

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Mar 16, 2017, 07:25AMIs unit level basic training just prep stuff in your city getting you ready for actual basic training? If so ... you may be in for a surprise when you enlist and get shipped off to actual combat training. If you have computer or phone access at actual basic training, I'd be very surprised.

The system in Canada just changed this year, and now (for the navy) it is split into three modules. The first is done at the unit, which is pretty much standard basic but weekly instead of daily. The second module is the hardcore residential training (it's in Quebec) and then the third module is back at the unit, just polishing everything up and concluding the training.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:47 am

That sounds a lot more humane. You have a week to recover from each insult at the beginning. Maybe by the time you do the residence you won't be as flummoxed.

I forgot to congratulate you on winning the Navy Band audition.

ttf_Dan Hine · Post by **ttf_Dan Hine** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:38 am

Quote from: BGuttman on Mar 17, 2017, 09:47AMThat sounds a lot more humane.

I didn't find USMC recruit training to be inhumane at all.

ttf_Socal77 · Post by **ttf_Socal77** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:47 pm

With all due respect, if basic training stresses you out you should most certainly not be in the military. Granted, being a bandsman is a far cry from being in SEAL Team Six, or a nuclear submarine officer/crewman, or a fighter pilot, etc., but being in the military carries with it the possibility being of being put in harms way and the acceptance of the possibility of dying for your country. The reality is many military members in combatant roles are very resentful of guys and gals tooting their horns and collecting the same base pay as they do.

ttf_Pre59 · Post by **ttf_Pre59** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:32 am

You could flip this the other way around, and say that those who joined for combat roles haven't had to spend many years honing their skills, just to get to recruit level and receive the same basic pay?

ttf_Dan Hine · Post by **ttf_Dan Hine** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:33 am

Quote from: Socal77 on Apr 16, 2017, 02:47PMThe reality is many military members in combatant roles are very resentful of guys and gals tooting their horns and collecting the same base pay as they do.

That hasn't been my reality.

ttf_slide advantage · Post by **ttf_slide advantage** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:51 am

I was in US Army basic training in the summer of '81. I was going into the West Point Jazz Knights.

When I enlisted I was told it was a 6 weeks deal. Halfway through I was told that it was now EIGHT weeks.

I had to stupid idea that I could take my horn along. I showed up to basic training (Ft Leonard Wood Missouri) and at first we were assigned to the reception station. That lasted three or four days. No training or assignments per se. We had to get up every day and stand in lines. We were given our haircuts, and all the uniforms we'd need (not including the West Point band uniforms however).

When I had a chance I'd grab my horn and go practice. The other recruits probably were wondering what the hell was wrong with me. They hung out, smokes cigarettes, played cards, whatever.

On the day we were assigned to a company, we were told to assemble outside. From the air everyone looked identical except for me. I had my gig bag next to me.

The recruiting station SGT Major came over and asked me "Why'd you bring your tuba?"

Rather than correct him I told him since I was going directly to West Point after basic, I needed to have it with me. He asked how much the horn cost. I knew where he was headed; he wanted to ship it. I told him it cost me $2000. (in reality my Bach 12 cost me $225m, but I didn't want it being mailed anywhere)

He shook his head and told me that my drill SGT would have me turn it in along with my civilian clothes.

The day came when were in line with our civies. The drill asked me what I had in the case. I told him "my trombone, Sargent"

He told me "Hell, get it out and play something" I was blown away. But I saw my chance. I got my horn together and began playing every military song I could manage. Army, Marine, Navy etc.

Then he said "well, keep it in your locker. I'll have you play it every now and then"

I put in my locker still assembled. Stuffed my gig bag on the top shelf. I managed some practice time over those remaining 7 weeks, but not much.

ttf_timothy42b · Post by **ttf_timothy42b** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:45 am

Quote from: Socal77 on Apr 16, 2017, 02:47PM The reality is many military members in combatant roles are very resentful of guys and gals tooting their horns and collecting the same base pay as they do.

I haven't seen that. I'm not saying it might not exist somewhere, but it doesn't seem to be obvious. The military is full of cooks, laundry specialists, clerk typists, personnel specialists who process movement orders, lawyers, veterinarians, etc. A lot of cogs turn that wheel, and not everybody is a shooter.

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:57 am

Quote from: Socal77 on Apr 16, 2017, 02:47PM The reality is many military members in combatant roles are very resentful of guys and gals tooting their horns and collecting the same base pay as they do.

I'm guessing that something like that might have been somewhat true during the draft days, when you had no choice about being there and got stuck with the grunt job you got stuck with, while movie stars got officer commissions with safe stateside duties.

But the US is 40 years out of the draft now.

ttf_Woolworth · Post by **ttf_Woolworth** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:18 am

Quote from: Dan Hine on Apr 17, 2017, 09:33AMThat hasn't been my reality.

There is some contempt towards bandsmen from the "rest" of the military. I experienced it many times, myself. I was in a National Guard band and found that even within the military, many of the troops don't understand that we are soldiers first, musicians second, and we don't drive a truck or fire a cannon "the rest of the time".

Usually they don't understand how military musicians' rank is attained (through the civilian acquired skills programs). When I joined there was no accelerated rank; I was enlisted at E-1 and it was a year before I made E-2, another year to E-3. A few years later, new recruits came in at E-3 and were promoted to E-4 following completion of the School of Music. There was resentment towards those folks even within the band itself.

Here's an example; read the comments section.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/3lkp3b/9_month_tsgt_in_usaf_band/

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/is-it-possible-to-get-promoted-this-quickly-in-the-air-force-is-this-typical-for-band-members?page=9&urlhash=997620#997620

ttf_Dan Hine · Post by **ttf_Dan Hine** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:04 pm

Quote from: Woolworth on Apr 17, 2017, 11:18AMThere is some contempt towards bandsmen from the "rest" of the military.
I suppose I cannot say there is none. I haven't REALLY experienced it myself. Yes, there is definitely a lot (perhaps a majority) that just don't understand what we do. But not understanding is different than contempt. How I carried myself and presented what we do seemed to make a difference - for me, in the USMC and Army over 12 years from 2005 - now.

QuoteUsually they don't understand how military musicians' rank is attained (through the civilian acquired skills programs).
When I came in to the USMC there was not civilian acquired skills program and as far as I know, there still isn't. I was an E-2 but that was due to college credit and nothing to do with my job. So anyone could have been an E-2 in any job with college experience.

In my opinion, I think the Army should do away with accelerated rank because of job skill. Being a musician is really a small part of what we do and someone who has been in for a short period is (typically) NOT ready to lead others in a military environment. E-3 at most.

QuoteHere's an example; read the comments section.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/3lkp3b/9_month_tsgt_in_usaf_band/

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/is-it-possible-to-get-promoted-this-quickly-in-the-air-force-is-this-typical-for-band-members?page=9&urlhash=997620#997620

Yes, lots of hate on the internet. What else is new? I didn't serve the military on web forums so when I refer to my personal experience, it's exactly that. You can find haters for literally everything online.

I'm sorry you had bad experiences, but mine were significantly different. There were some "school ground bullies" I suppose. But there were also many great people. They were the norm for me.

ttf_gbedinger · Post by **ttf_gbedinger** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:40 pm

Quote from: Socal77 on Apr 16, 2017, 02:47PMWith all due respect, if basic training stresses you out you should most certainly not be in the military.

I beg to differ. Stress, and how you perform under it, is what basic training is all about.

ttf_slide advantage · Post by **ttf_slide advantage** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:42 pm

My experience being in an academy service band was unique in that we got great rank, and quick.

I was in basic as an E3 and after 2 months at my duty station (West Point) I was bumped to E6. I did get some grief from regular army guys here and there but not a lot.

One day I dropped by the USMA Credit Union to cash a check. I was in uniform. There was an E4 outside the building raking leaves. His service stripes showed he had been the service for 6 + years. (Each stripe equals 3 years time).

My uniform had no service stripes. I had only been in for a year. Yet I was a spec 6.

He gave me some sh*t. Technically I could have gotten him in trouble even though I wasn't a hard stripe E6.

I told him that I had skills going in, I auditioned and was offered the job. I added "if you want to audition, get a horn"

ttf_Radar · Post by **ttf_Radar** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:12 pm

Well it's been several decades since I did basic training, but basic training was primarily about teaching you to follow directions. Sometimes they will ask you to do the stupidest things, but the best thing to do is just whatever the instructions are that the give you follow them as closely and as quickly as possible. The other difficult part of Basic training is the physical conditioning. The physical conditioning will be difficult at first but will get easier as time goes by, don't get discouraged if you can't do everything at first, just keep trying it will come.

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:14 pm

Quote from: Dan Hine on Apr 17, 2017, 02:04PMIn my opinion, I think the Army should do away with accelerated rank because of job skill. Being a musician is really a small part of what we do and someone who has been in for a short period is (typically) NOT ready to lead others in a military environment. E-3 at most.

That seems to leave two options... do away with the bands since the accelerated rank was needed to fill them with competent players, or accept substantially less capable players who are OK with the lower pay.

Is higher pay always about higher leadership in the military? Is the ability to do a difficult task that is hard to find people to do (doctors were mentioned above) not a valid factor?

There's got to be more to the military than telling other people to do things, there's got to be people who can actually do the things, right?

ttf_Dan Hine · Post by **ttf_Dan Hine** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:51 pm

Quote from: robcat2075 on Apr 17, 2017, 04:14PMThat seems to leave two options... do away with the bands since the accelerated rank was needed to fill them with competent players,
Well, that's not correct. Accelerated rank was NOT needed to fill them with competent players. I performed with many amazing players who came in as E-2s.

Quoteor accept substantially less capable players who are OK with the lower pay.
Again, not necessarily. Your opinion is based on assumption and no experience.

QuoteIs higher pay always about higher leadership in the military? Is the ability to do a difficult task that is hard to find people to do (doctors were mentioned above) not a valid factor?
Like it or not, yes. Current rank structure generally means pay AND responsibility.

QuoteThere's got to be more to the military than telling other people to do things, there's got to be people who can actually do the things, right?

Yes. There is more than telling people what to do. In fact, leadership has LITTLE to do with "telling people what to do." Have you ever been in the military? How many people are you responsible for on a daily basis? And I don't mean their work performance. I mean the people themselves. That's part of military life, too.

ttf_JP · Post by **ttf_JP** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:28 pm

I went thru basic in the Army during the Vietnam war. Even though I was going to a band in SF. 2 months of very rugged experience, but it is only 2 months. Lost some weight, got in shape, and got be around some of the biggest (nice word) jerks of my life...that also helped me grow into an adult.

But are you doing Navy basic training, isn't that longer and more involved? Good luck.

ttf_schlitzbeer · Post by **ttf_schlitzbeer** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:17 am

Quote from: TromboneConcerto on Mar 16, 2017, 05:20AM

Have any of you gone through basic? Do you have any tips you could share with me to help get me through this? I'm already feeling very scared and can't stop thinking about it.

How's it going, eh? Don't be discouraged by all of the US Army bands vets. They're all hosers, not recognizing you're in Canada. These hosers can't have BEER for a few months, along with other things that usually affects their judgement. Physical training reduces stress, gets you tired, and you'll do fine. Don't be on time for work, be early. Practice, study, and watch hockey to relax. Several years ago, I played with some of the military band guys in Victoria/Vancouver. Good group of people. Go 'Hawks..... Go Navy...... At AF bases everywhere, FTA......

ttf_Dan Hine · Post by **ttf_Dan Hine** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:54 pm

Quote from: robcat2075 on Apr 17, 2017, 04:14PMThat seems to leave two options... do away with the bands since the accelerated rank was needed to fill them with competent players

Also, Robcat, using your neck of the woods as an example, an E-2 with dependents (wife, child, or both) would earn (before tax) $46,151. That doesn't include benefits like no cost healthcare, tuition assistance while on active duty, GI Bill, VA Loan, etc. Maybe I'm out of touch. Is $46k plus benefits all that bad?

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Post by **ttf_harrison.t.reed** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:18 am

I realize tge OP is in Canada, but in referenxe to what others are talking about...

hypothetically speaking, in reference to a military that might be similar to real ones that exist today, it wouldn't be entirely a bad thing for military bands to handicap their new soldiers by not having instant promotion to E4, AND if so, to further handicap their field by also not instantly promoting bandsmen with degrees to E4. As it stands, 90% or more of incoming bandsmen have a degree. This is not the case in other fields in the military -- for example in the infantry or food service branches, where degrees are rare for new soldiers, it makes some sense to promote these soldiers to E4 immediately. They stand out.

Having all new bandsmen come in as E4s appears to just strain the promotion system. Soldiers are all promoted or become promotable too fast, sometimes before it becomes apparent that they have no business being NCOs. Because they all have degrees (which is worth points towards promotion), there suddenly is a glut of E4s and E5s fighting for points, and many of them do not have a good work ethic because they never had to be a private or take orders.

It only takes two years to go automatically from E1 to E4. This is more than enough time to weed out bozos who can't hack it in the army before they can get themselves promoted and protected by medical profiles and other egregious examples of malingering that plague the hypothetical military band in my hypothesis.

It's great to be an awesome player, but that's only like 20% of what you need to be a military bandsman outside of the special bands in DC. Far more important is being a team player and helping to make your unit function properly for day to day stuff.

ttf_Radar · Post by **ttf_Radar** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:46 am

Quote from: Socal77 on Apr 16, 2017, 02:47PMWith all due respect, if basic training stresses you out you should most certainly not be in the military. Granted, being a bandsman is a far cry from being in SEAL Team Six, or a nuclear submarine officer/crewman, or a fighter pilot, etc., but being in the military carries with it the possibility being of being put in harms way and the acceptance of the possibility of dying for your country. The reality is many military members in combatant roles are very resentful of guys and gals tooting their horns and collecting the same base pay as they do.

I would disagree with this. Basic training is designed to stress out recruits to see if they have what it takes to make it through. I don't know anyone who made it all the way through basic training who didn't feel stressed out by the experience. Basic training in the US Navy anyways (which was where I did it) was the same for everyone regardless of if you were going to be a bandsman or a future seal team member (which you wouldn't know at the time of basic training).

ttf_Terraplane8Bob · Post by **ttf_Terraplane8Bob** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:04 am

A long, long time ago, in a place far away I went through Army basic training prior to joining The United States Army Band in Washington, D.C. If it hadn't been for the knowledge that I was slated to definitely be in that specific group after basic, I know that I would have had a very difficult time adjusting. They gave me a letter and a phone number to call if I heard so much as a word that I was not headed to TUSAB. As it turned out, the Lieutenant in charge of our platoon called me in on the second day of training after hearing that I'd graduated from a music conservatory. He always wanted a band to march around his troops and evidently, I was the one that was going to make it happen. I put the word out and found a couple of trumpet players and a zillion "Drummers". We were given a weekend pass to go home for our instruments --- unheard of in the first week of basic --- and the "Drummers" went to nearby Philadelphia and bought whatever they could find at the nearest pawn shop ! I spared my Elkhart 88H the indignity of having its slide ground into oblivion by the dusty conditions at Fort Dix and instead took my Mirafone "Bass Trumpet / Flugelhorn" [Just like the Mnozil Brass "Lonely Boy" plays]. We must have played "Saints" a million times ! I was even asked to play at birthday parties for different sergeants and even got a day off duty to scout up some manuscript paper and write arrangements for the band ! It made basic a whole lot less stressful ! When I finally reached TUSAB I found myself among some of the greatest musicians and terrific human beings I'd ever experienced. I thought it to be so then and I still feel that way today, some 57 years later. Hang in there -- just do what you are told -- don't volunteer for anything -- and before you know it you'll be among "your own kind" --- MUSICIANS ! And --- the stories you'll have to tell -------- !! Cheers !! Bob

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:18 pm

Quote from: Dan Hine on Apr 17, 2017, 04:51PM
QuoteThere's got to be more to the military than telling other people to do things, there's got to be people who can actually do the things, right?
Yes. There is more than telling people what to do. In fact, leadership has LITTLE to do with "telling people what to do." Have you ever been in the military? How many people are you responsible for on a daily basis? And I don't mean their work performance. I mean the people themselves. That's part of military life, too.

Oh dear! Indignation at pesky questions!

If I had been in the military I wouldn't be asking about how it works.

If you don't like questions, you should avoid internet forums.

QuoteQuoteThat seems to leave two options... do away with the bands since the accelerated rank was needed to fill them with competent players,
Well, that's not correct. Accelerated rank was NOT needed to fill them with competent players. I performed with many amazing players who came in as E-2s.
But "many" is not really the same as filling all needed places. If it's truly unnecessary why is it happening? Why did it get started?

QuoteQuoteor accept substantially less capable players who are OK with the lower pay.
Again, not necessarily. Your opinion is based on assumption and no experience.
It's based on the economic reality that people rarely pay more than they need to for something if they don't have to.

I'm presuming there isn't a horde of lobbyists promoting military bands like there is for tanks and next-gen jets to distort the normal functioning of economics.

ttf_Dan Hine · Post by **ttf_Dan Hine** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:24 pm

Quote from: robcat2075 on Apr 19, 2017, 02:18PM

Oh dear! Indignation at pesky questions!
No indignation here. More like rhetorical questions.

QuoteIf I had been in the military I wouldn't be asking about how it works.
I wasn't replying to any question you asked. You made the statement "that seems to leave two options." Your position was incorrect based on inaccurate information.

QuoteIf you don't like questions, you should avoid internet forums.
I like questions just fine. I admit to not liking comments presented in a manner which can be construed as facts which are based on a misunderstanding of how a system works. Perhaps "can military bands sustain the necessary talent level without providing accelerated rank and pay?" The answer to that would be yes.

ttf_Dan Hine · Post by **ttf_Dan Hine** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:24 pm

Quote from: robcat2075 on Apr 19, 2017, 02:18PM

Oh dear! Indignation at pesky questions!
No indignation here. More like rhetorical questions.

QuoteIf I had been in the military I wouldn't be asking about how it works.
I wasn't replying to any question you asked. You made the statement "that seems to leave two options." Your position was incorrect based on inaccurate information.

QuoteIf you don't like questions, you should avoid internet forums.
I like questions just fine. I admit to not liking comments presented in a manner which can be construed as facts which are based on a misunderstanding of how a system works. Perhaps "can military bands sustain the necessary talent level without providing accelerated rank and pay?" The answer to that would be yes.