Elkhart 88h inner slides specs

ttf_sonicsilver · Post by **ttf_sonicsilver** » Tue May 16, 2017 6:40 am

I have an old Conn that needs "refreshment."

Is there a difference between Elkhart inners and modern tubes, specifically the 88h?

And if yes, where can Elkhart specification inners be had? I'm assuming the tubes available are replicas/copies.

ttf_Vintage88H · Post by **ttf_Vintage88H** » Tue May 16, 2017 6:44 am

As i know there is no difference between Elkhart and modern 88H inner tubes.

ttf_john sandhagen · Post by **ttf_john sandhagen** » Tue May 16, 2017 6:48 am

Conn still makes 8/88H tubes...they are a hair smaller in diameter, but the shape of the stocking is much improved over the "square" Elkhart design.

ttf_greenbean · Post by **ttf_greenbean** » Tue May 16, 2017 7:05 am

Elkhart slides are significantly longer, but new inners should be long enough.

ttf_sonicsilver · Post by **ttf_sonicsilver** » Tue May 16, 2017 9:53 am

Thanks guys, but look: three replies and three different answers.

Vintage88H - no difference
john sandhagen - different stocking
greenbean - Elkharts are longer

So which is it?

Or can I just stick on new inners and it'll be fine? No need to worry about how it runs on (possibly) different stockings or reaching low E and C on (possibly) shorter tubes?

ttf_bubbachet · Post by **ttf_bubbachet** » Tue May 16, 2017 10:21 am

Having owned both: The elkhart slide inners are about 3/8" longer than the modern inners, and the shape of the stocking is indeed different.. The cork barrels are also deeper, too, to accommodate slide springs.

You will, however, probably be fine using modern inners on your elkhart. The modern inner slide tubes are super nice, but they are not replicas or recreations of the Elkharts.

That help?

ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist · Tue May 16, 2017 10:25 am

I'm willing to bet that MK Drawing can make inner tubes to the length you need.

ttf_JWykell · Post by **ttf_JWykell** » Tue May 16, 2017 1:34 pm

Why not pm Noah Gladstone and ask him what they use at the Brass Ark for inners when they have to replace them for an 8/88h. They've rehabed a lot of them.

ttf_Rockymountaintrombone · Tue May 16, 2017 7:15 pm

Conn-Selmer (or whatever they're called these days) are not doing well with supplying replacement parts. I had an Elkhart 8H for sale at Noah's shop, and we gave up waiting for replacement inners after about 6 months. Sold it as-is.

As far as length of Conn slides, as far as I know, the new ones are the same length as the old Elkhart slides, except for the 70 series (70H, 72H, etc.) which were longer to allow for low "C's" with a single trigger. I'm guessing that the outer dimensions are a bit different, since most modern slides have a less pronounced difference from the main slide to the stocking area. I would take the word of the repair people that have responded about this topic, since they deal with these items on a daily basis in order to provide us with the great service that we all appreciate.

Jim Scott

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Wed May 17, 2017 7:14 am

Length can be worked with. Smaller diameter?? Run away. Slide compression issues.

ttf_sonicsilver · Post by **ttf_sonicsilver** » Wed May 17, 2017 12:17 pm

Oh dear, I've opened a can of worms.

Thanks for the replies, guys. Jim Scott and JWykell are right that it's best to discuss it with a tech who's actually worked with both sets of tubes side by side. I just wanted to know what I'm talking about/asking for when I discuss it with the repairman.

What sort of price should I expect for fitting inners and a slide tune-up?

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Wed May 17, 2017 12:32 pm

The chrome plated inners are probably going to be the most expensive part. I ordered a new Bach inner (just one) a few years ago and it was close to $200 for the part alone. I would personally budget $600 for the whole project knowing that some things can go wrong, but obviously that figure could be much lower if the Conn parts are cheaper and nothing goes wrong with the procedure.

One thing nobody has yet mentioned as far as I can see is that if your leadpipe is still soldered in the original slide upper that it might be destroyed in the process. You would have to replace it then. A new pipe varies by whom you decide to purchase it from. Shires has a replica pipe (VE) and brassark has a few (8H and 88H) in a variety of materials. Or, of course, a new Conn 8H pipe.

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Wed May 17, 2017 12:51 pm

Quote from: sonicsilver on Yesterday at 12:17 PMOh dear, I've opened a can of worms.

Thanks for the replies, guys. Jim Scott and JWykell are right that it's best to discuss it with a tech who's actually worked with both sets of tubes side by side. I just wanted to know what I'm talking about/asking for when I discuss it with the repairman.

What sort of price should I expect for fitting inners and a slide tune-up?

Ask the tech who'll be doing the job. Once again you'll get many answers, some you might not like.

ttf_john sandhagen · Post by **ttf_john sandhagen** » Thu May 18, 2017 7:35 am

A few years ago King went to a looser fit on their stockings...a bit too much IMO. Then Bach followed suit. I know after complaints from techs, Bach went back to close to original specs.

The compression is good on the Conn tubes.

When I rebuild an entire slide, the new outer tubes will also be shorter. Very few people ask for springs in the cork barrels and pitch in general is higher than in 1955 when they designed the original 88H, so not an issue.

ttf_john sandhagen · Post by **ttf_john sandhagen** » Thu May 18, 2017 7:35 am

A few years ago King went to a looser fit on their stockings...a bit too much IMO. Then Bach followed suit. I know after complaints from techs, Bach went back to close to original specs.

The compression is good on the Conn tubes.

When I rebuild an entire slide, the new outer tubes will also be shorter. Very few people ask for springs in the cork barrels and pitch in general is higher than in 1955 when they designed the original 88H, so not an issue.