“Trombone” not suitable for informative speech.

[trombonejb]

In my public speaking class, I sent an email asking my prof to see if I could do an informative speech on the trombone. Here’s what she had to say.

“Jack I’m concerned that you may not be able to find scholarly sources that are enough content but possibly if you look into the history of the instrument maybe how it’s made, etc. However my other concern might be how it is relevant to the rest of the audience because it’s so specific. I’m not saying no I’m just asking you to think about these things and possibly think of a different topic. I find you such an interesting person and very engaging so I am curious as to what else you may have had in mind?”

I was kind of surprised she didn’t see the potential in what the topic had to offer. It sounds like the problem she has with it is “relevance to the audience”. Or maybe in other words “relevance in today’s society” as opposed to issues such as global warming, education funding, gun control, religious oppression, etc.

I’m hoping I’m not alone in this argument that the trombone does satisfy for an informative speech.

Thanks and have a good day!
Jack

[SteveP]

So are you gonna risk it or cave? If this is a public speaking class why would she care what you talk about?

[harrisonreed]

She might have a point...

[hyperbolica]

maybe you could back up a little without caving in. Talk about free speech in contemporary music.

[Matt K]

Why don't you talk about music itself? The trombone itself might be really dry but there is no lack of scholarly sources on musicology.

[Kingfan]

I find that in public speaking, if the speaker is passionate and knowledgable on the topic they generally do a great job and engage the audience. Stick to your guns (or slides, as the case may be)!

[BGuttman]

My take is simply talking bout "Trombone" is way too broad.

Find a facet about the instrument. Something you could explore. Some suggestions:

Role of the Trombone in [Concert Band/Orchestra/Jazz] (choose any one)
Trombone construction through the ages from 1450 to the present
Soloing in Jazz: How it has changed.
Influence of Emory Remington on Trombone Pedagogy (or Jaroslav Cimera or Max Schlossberg)

Giving a ten minute speech (or even a half hour) just trying to describe "trombonr" may be a bit much.

[jthomas105]

Scholarly sources with content, here are a few.

The Art of Trombone Playing - Edward Kleinhammer
The Art of Brass Playing - Philip Farkas
Mastering the Trombone - Edward Kleinhammer and Douglas Yeo
Also Sprach Arnold Jacobs - Compiled by Bruce Nelson
Arnold Jacobs: Song and Wind - Brian Frederiksen
Trombone Technique - Denis Wick

This is a perfect subject if you are an music ed major. Some day you are going to have to stand in front of a group of elementary kids and show/teach/convince the basics of how trombone(any instrument) is played and why they should join band. You may even need to make a similar presentation to their parents.

Your "professor"??? has no knowledge of brass instruments. This is your chance to inform her, she definitely needs an education.

The relevance to your classmates???? Most of them will probably be parents someday with kids in school that will come home from school wanting to be in band. Your presentation may make them say "This guy in one of my classes in college told us about trombone, why don't give that a try." or just to give any instrument a try for that matter.

If you need any guidance PM me. I am a retired band director. I also did an informative speech about trombone years ago for my speech class.

[Matt K]

Actually, I'm reminded of a Russian History class that I took. We had to do one topic to research for the class and there were many prompts to choose from. One of them was "Soviet Music of the Counterculture" or something to that effect. A lot of the other topics had already been chosen and thought it might be interesting so I indicated I would choose that one. The professor indicated, "Oh well, the materials for that on are pretty dense, you really have to know something about academic music, I should have removed that one from the list, normally students end up switching topics from that..." At which point I indicated I had half a masters in performance an dan undergraduate in it, to which he replied, "Oh okay you'll have no problem then."

It turned out to actually be quite nteresting. A lot of the material was on this composer named Volkonsky. The super condensed version is that a bunch of musicologists acquired some manuscripts from the 3rd Vieneese school (Schonberg, etc.) but they couldn't read the language it was written in (German I suppose?) and the people who acquired them write already under some form of scrutiny so they didn't want to set off too many alarm bells getting it translated so they tried to analyze it based on functional harmony. The result is actually some really beautiful music that is really neither.

It passed through the Soviet censors as this was immediately following Stalin's death when there was a bit of an uncertain transition period and long story short, thy were allowed to write ths type of music. Eventually things got more difficult and he ended up being a world class harpsichordist and musicologist studying the music of Bach.

Super interesting to me and the professor was an organist himself; he received a degree in Organ performance before doing a masters and PhD in History so the presentation was understood by him and him alone lol Then the Q&A session was mostly him asking me about some of the analysis that I did of the piece, of which 0 other people also understood it!

I could have made it more approachable but my audience was basically him and the other students were incidental in that particular assignment. If your goal is to be informative to others... maybe something more approachable. I don't believe the method books mentioned are actually academic (the OP is probably needing peer-reviewed journals). But I might be incorrect about that. In either case, making it about something that could apply to them is definitely a good tactic if that's part of the assignment.

[robcat2075]

I'm surprised the topic even matters for a "public speaking" class which is really about getting the students comfortable with talking before an audience and not so much that the audience has a need to know.


Ideas to present to your teacher..

• It is not too specific because everyone has seen one and "knows" what they are.

• It is suitable as a topic for informing because although everyone has seen one, most people misunderstand how it works.

• It is an important instrument in the orchestral genre in the same way that a guitar is important in the folk genre. A guitar isn't unimportant just because no one likes folk music anymore, right?

This is a speech for laymen, right? I think a broad, layman terms, history & operation could be done in ten minutes.

[Kbiggs]

Your teacher sounds as though she is not aware of the narrow but deep scholarly interest in the trombone, especially its place in an historical context. There are many—many—scholarly books and articles on the history of the trombone and its use throughout history.

One place to start is the Historic Brass Society Journal. They have loads of scholarly articles about the trombone—its development as an instrument, how it was made then (Renaissance, Baroque, Romantic) vs. modern manufacturing techiniques, its use in different settings, its use in sacred and secular music, etc. You’ll find some articles by the most eminent scholars in music history and the trombone, e.g., Howard Weiner, Trevor Herbert, David Guion, and others.

You could also use google scholar to find published (and some unpublished) dissertations and articles.

I would not recommed using the books recommended by jthomas. (Apologies to jthomas.) They are excellent books, but they are not scholarly articles or books. They are more about how to play the trombone, not a topic that is of interest to a general audience.

As far as sparking interest in a general audience, I gave a speech in a high school speech class about the trombone. I started by playing Ride of the Valkyries, and then asked how may people recognized the music. Most said yes or raised their hands. I then asked how many recognized the most prominent instrument in the orchestration (the one that plays “the big tune”). I don’t believe anyone knew. Recognition of a small part, followed by lack of specific knowledge, often sparks interest in an audience. Ask them something you know they’ll know, and then follow it up with something you know they won’t know.

An interesing and immediately accessible topic for a general audience might be different types of solo works for trombone, with recorded excerpts. Starting out with a recording of some early virtuosic playing (Adam Wolff, Ercole Nisine, etc.), and then proceeding to Leopold Mozart, French contest tunes, and then more modern stuff, would provide a wide variety of information that would grab many people’s attention.

Whatever you choose, choose something that you are interested in. Use it as an opportunity to expand your knowledge of the instrument, history, etc., that will add to your understanding of the instrument that Berlioz referred to when he said,

“In my opinion, the trombone is the true head of the family of wind instruments, which I have named the 'epic' one. It possesses nobility and grandeur to the highest degree; it has all the serious and powerful tones of sublime musical poetry, from religious, calm and imposing accents to savage, orgiastic outburst. Directed by the will of the master, the trombones can chant like a choir of priests, threaten, utter gloomy sighs, a mournful lament, or a bright hymn of glory; they can break forth into awe-inspiring cries and awaken the dead or doom the living with their fearful voices.”

[hyperbolica]

Part of public speaking is understanding your audience and selecting a topic that will engage them. Delivering a speech is not just about you, but about a connection between you and your audience.

Yes, you need to speak on a topic that you know well, but you also need to find some common ground with the other students.

[ghmerrill]

“Jack I’m concerned that you may not be able to find scholarly sources that are enough content but possibly if you look into the history of the instrument maybe how it’s made, etc. However my other concern might be how it is relevant to the rest of the audience because it’s so specific. I’m not saying no I’m just asking you to think about these things and possibly think of a different topic. I find you such an interesting person and very engaging so I am curious as to what else you may have had in mind?”

If this is an exact quote from your professor (???), merely the English used in it (punctuation and grammar/sentence-structure errors) appears to disqualify her from teaching any class on public speaking in the English language. I'm really hoping that you re-typed what she actually said, and in doing that, introduced some errors accidentally.

Otherwise, I'm afraid she's an ignorant airhead and you'll need to do your best to get through what will likely be a course that contributes little to your skills and education. And I also really hope she's not a real professor (i.e., has that title) and you're only being kind/respectful in using the term.

[trombonejb]

So are you gonna risk it or cave? If this is a public speaking class why would she care what you talk about?

I was asking to see if you guys could help with my argument as to why it does work as a topic for a pubic speaking class

[trombonejb]

Why don't you talk about music itself? The trombone itself might be really dry but there is no lack of scholarly sources on musicology.

Perhaps on the history & development of music itself??

[trombonejb]

I find that in public speaking, if the speaker is passionate and knowledgable on the topic they generally do a great job and engage the audience. Stick to your guns (or slides, as the case may be)!

Exactly!

[trombonejb]

My take is simply talking bout "Trombone" is way too broad.

Find a facet about the instrument. Something you could explore. Some suggestions:

Role of the Trombone in [Concert Band/Orchestra/Jazz] (choose any one)
Trombone construction through the ages from 1450 to the present
Soloing in Jazz: How it has changed.
Influence of Emory Remington on Trombone Pedagogy (or Jaroslav Cimera or Max Schlossberg)

Giving a ten minute speech (or even a half hour) just trying to describe "trombonr" may be a bit much.

I'll probably lean towards trombone construction on this one. If I was gonna talk about role in this, soloing in that, influence of that, I would also have to inform the audience what "THAT" is. and it is very likely this class im in has no knowledge of all 3 thats.

trombone construction will most likely work for me bc most ppl know what it looks like.

Heck I could even bring in a buddy outside of class who plays bass trombone as well!

[trombonejb]

Scholarly sources with content, here are a few.

The Art of Trombone Playing - Edward Kleinhammer
The Art of Brass Playing - Philip Farkas
Mastering the Trombone - Edward Kleinhammer and Douglas Yeo
Also Sprach Arnold Jacobs - Compiled by Bruce Nelson
Arnold Jacobs: Song and Wind - Brian Frederiksen
Trombone Technique - Denis Wick

This is a perfect subject if you are an music ed major. Some day you are going to have to stand in front of a group of elementary kids and show/teach/convince the basics of how trombone(any instrument) is played and why they should join band. You may even need to make a similar presentation to their parents.

Your "professor"??? has no knowledge of brass instruments. This is your chance to inform her, she definitely needs an education.

The relevance to your classmates???? Most of them will probably be parents someday with kids in school that will come home from school wanting to be in band. Your presentation may make them say "This guy in one of my classes in college told us about trombone, why don't give that a try." or just to give any instrument a try for that matter.

If you need any guidance PM me. I am a retired band director. I also did an informative speech about trombone years ago for my speech class.

I'm not a music major & don't feel like I need to dwell on something that specific for a pubic speaking class.

"Why they should pick up the trombone and join band" would be good for a persuasive speech, this is an informative speech so that won't work here. But yes, being able to present info on the trombone to encourage parents of children to play trombone or band in general does sound like a cool Idea!

The professor is in her fifties and didn't pursue a higher education until she was in her forties. She does have an education, she has a superstar personality, and i think is a great person. I think her concern is that the topic itself isn't gonna be as interesting as something more relevant such as the russia collusion investigation, kavanaugh sexual assault claims, or hurricane florence.

Relevance to classmates? Absolutely! They will be parents someday and maybe give their kid an instrument to play in band with. but as i said before, to convince them is for a persuasive speech, and this is an informative speech.

And thanks for your help!

[trombonejb]

Actually, I'm reminded of a Russian History class that I took. We had to do one topic to research for the class and there were many prompts to choose from. One of them was "Soviet Music of the Counterculture" or something to that effect. A lot of the other topics had already been chosen and thought it might be interesting so I indicated I would choose that one. The professor indicated, "Oh well, the materials for that on are pretty dense, you really have to know something about academic music, I should have removed that one from the list, normally students end up switching topics from that..." At which point I indicated I had half a masters in performance an dan undergraduate in it, to which he replied, "Oh okay you'll have no problem then."

It turned out to actually be quite nteresting. A lot of the material was on this composer named Volkonsky. The super condensed version is that a bunch of musicologists acquired some manuscripts from the 3rd Vieneese school (Schonberg, etc.) but they couldn't read the language it was written in (German I suppose?) and the people who acquired them write already under some form of scrutiny so they didn't want to set off too many alarm bells getting it translated so they tried to analyze it based on functional harmony. The result is actually some really beautiful music that is really neither.

It passed through the Soviet censors as this was immediately following Stalin's death when there was a bit of an uncertain transition period and long story short, thy were allowed to write ths type of music. Eventually things got more difficult and he ended up being a world class harpsichordist and musicologist studying the music of Bach.

Super interesting to me and the professor was an organist himself; he received a degree in Organ performance before doing a masters and PhD in History so the presentation was understood by him and him alone lol Then the Q&A session was mostly him asking me about some of the analysis that I did of the piece, of which 0 other people also understood it!

I could have made it more approachable but my audience was basically him and the other students were incidental in that particular assignment. If your goal is to be informative to others... maybe something more approachable. I don't believe the method books mentioned are actually academic (the OP is probably needing peer-reviewed journals). But I might be incorrect about that. In either case, making it about something that could apply to them is definitely a good tactic if that's part of the assignment.

Great suggestion, but too specific for me.

[trombonejb]

I'm surprised the topic even matters for a "public speaking" class which is really about getting the students comfortable with talking before an audience and not so much that the audience has a need to know.


Ideas to present to your teacher..

• It is not too specific because everyone has seen one and "knows" what they are.

• It is suitable as a topic for informing because although everyone has seen one, most people misunderstand how it works.

• It is an important instrument in the orchestral genre in the same way that a guitar is important in the folk genre. A guitar isn't unimportant just because no one likes folk music anymore, right?

This is a speech for laymen, right? I think a broad, layman terms, history & operation could be done in ten minutes.

This is an excellent explanation and I will formulate this into a response to her!

Jack

[trombonejb]

Your teacher sounds as though she is not aware of the narrow but deep scholarly interest in the trombone, especially its place in an historical context. There are many—many—scholarly books and articles on the history of the trombone and its use throughout history.

One place to start is the Historic Brass Society Journal. They have loads of scholarly articles about the trombone—its development as an instrument, how it was made then (Renaissance, Baroque, Romantic) vs. modern manufacturing techiniques, its use in different settings, its use in sacred and secular music, etc. You’ll find some articles by the most eminent scholars in music history and the trombone, e.g., Howard Weiner, Trevor Herbert, David Guion, and others.

You could also use google scholar to find published (and some unpublished) dissertations and articles.

I would not recommed using the books recommended by jthomas. (Apologies to jthomas.) They are excellent books, but they are not scholarly articles or books. They are more about how to play the trombone, not a topic that is of interest to a general audience.

As far as sparking interest in a general audience, I gave a speech in a high school speech class about the trombone. I started by playing Ride of the Valkyries, and then asked how may people recognized the music. Most said yes or raised their hands. I then asked how many recognized the most prominent instrument in the orchestration (the one that plays “the big tune”). I don’t believe anyone knew. Recognition of a small part, followed by lack of specific knowledge, often sparks interest in an audience. Ask them something you know they’ll know, and then follow it up with something you know they won’t know.

An interesing and immediately accessible topic for a general audience might be different types of solo works for trombone, with recorded excerpts. Starting out with a recording of some early virtuosic playing (Adam Wolff, Ercole Nisine, etc.), and then proceeding to Leopold Mozart, French contest tunes, and then more modern stuff, would provide a wide variety of information that would grab many people’s attention.

Whatever you choose, choose something that you are interested in. Use it as an opportunity to expand your knowledge of the instrument, history, etc., that will add to your understanding of the instrument that Berlioz referred to when he said,

“In my opinion, the trombone is the true head of the family of wind instruments, which I have named the 'epic' one. It possesses nobility and grandeur to the highest degree; it has all the serious and powerful tones of sublime musical poetry, from religious, calm and imposing accents to savage, orgiastic outburst. Directed by the will of the master, the trombones can chant like a choir of priests, threaten, utter gloomy sighs, a mournful lament, or a bright hymn of glory; they can break forth into awe-inspiring cries and awaken the dead or doom the living with their fearful voices.”

I love this response and it will help me frame my informative speech alot!

[Matt K]

Why don't you talk about music itself? The trombone itself might be really dry but there is no lack of scholarly sources on musicology.

Perhaps on the history & development of music itself??

Sure! There's a goldmine with "American" music -- about the origins of Jazz, Blues, and how that morphed into contemporary music etc.

[trombonejb]

“Jack I’m concerned that you may not be able to find scholarly sources that are enough content but possibly if you look into the history of the instrument maybe how it’s made, etc. However my other concern might be how it is relevant to the rest of the audience because it’s so specific. I’m not saying no I’m just asking you to think about these things and possibly think of a different topic. I find you such an interesting person and very engaging so I am curious as to what else you may have had in mind?”

If this is an exact quote from your professor (???), merely the English used in it (punctuation and grammar/sentence-structure errors) appears to disqualify her from teaching any class on public speaking in the English language. I'm really hoping that you re-typed what she actually said, and in doing that, introduced some errors accidentally.

Otherwise, I'm afraid she's an ignorant airhead and you'll need to do your best to get through what will likely be a course that contributes little to your skills and education. And I also really hope she's not a real professor (i.e., has that title) and you're only being kind/respectful in using the term.

This is copied and pasted from her email to me. But it was sent from her iphone.

[trombonejb]

Perhaps on the history & development of music itself??

Sure! There's a goldmine with "American" music -- about the origins of Jazz, Blues, and how that morphed into contemporary music etc.

Bernstein! Copland!

[Kingfan]

I think we are getting a little in the weeds here. This is a class on public speaking, not music history. I would think the grade would be on how well trombonejb spoke, how prepared he is, how well the topic was researched and presented. I did something like this in college (of course, that was a long time ago) and later was involved in Toastmasters at work. I am curious how long the talk is - five minutes, ten, 15, 30, a full hour?

[trombonejb]

I think we are getting a little in the weeds here. This is a class on public speaking, not music history. I would think the grade would be on how well trombonejb spoke, how prepared he is, how well the topic was researched and presented. I did something like this in college (of course, that was a long time ago) and later was involved in Toastmasters at work. I am curious how long the talk is - five minutes, ten, 15, 30, a full hour?

between 5 and 10

[BGuttman]

This is a very short presentation. You won't be able to do some serious "peer reviewed" paper cites in a talk this short. Think about finding something pretty delimited that you can talk for 5-10 minutes on and present something cogent. Just describing the parts of a trombone and how to get a sound out of it can easily fill 5 minutes.

[ghmerrill]

This is copied and pasted from her email to me. But it was sent from her iphone.

I'm afraid the phone might excuse only some of the errors -- particularly from a professor tasked with teaching communications and speech -- although I'm not inclined to excuse any. If you can't exhibit your own standards in action for your students, then you don't get to complain when they don't exhibit those standards in the classroom. Or just call me old-fashioned. Or maybe just call me consistent and fair.

[trombonejb]

This is copied and pasted from her email to me. But it was sent from her iphone.

I'm afraid the phone might excuse only some of the errors -- particularly from a professor tasked with teaching communications and speech -- although I'm not inclined to excuse any. If you can't exhibit your own standards in action for your students, then you don't get to complain when they don't exhibit those standards in the classroom. Or just call me old-fashioned. Or maybe just call me consistent and fair.

I would say your argument makes sense

[trombonejb]

Clarification: The speech will be 4-6minutes long

[robcat2075]

If the speech is without visual aids, just explaining the mechanism verbally could fill four to six minutes.

[trombonejb]

there will be visual aids. a powerpoint is required, 3 sources, and I'll probably bring my trombone to demonstrate.

[ghmerrill]

there will be visual aids. a powerpoint is required, 3 sources, and I'll probably bring my trombone to demonstrate.

Now here's an excellent topic for you if you have to do another one! Look in Edward Tufte's books -- particularly Beautiful Evidence (https://www.amazon.com/Beautiful-Eviden ... l+evidence), the chapter "The Cognitive Style of Powerpoint: Pitching Out Corrupts Within" -- and do a nice and informative presentation on the value of Powerpoint compared to unfortunate features and effects it has in the presentation of information. She'll have to love it, eh?

Opps ... I forgot that there's a standalone version of this that won't cost you the price of a decent mouthpiece: https://www.amazon.com/Cognitive-Style- ... powerpoint.

[Pre59]

What I was taught as a kid, is that the Tbn is a mercurial instrument. That it sits between other instruments to complete them in a musical setting. That it has many facets, from dark and sombre through brilliant to romantic.
That it lends itself to situations where a horn section needs the maximum amount of tonal variation that can also blend together well, as in the classic (commercial) section of Trumpet Sax and Tbn.

In short, talk about what the Tbn does and can do as well as what it is.

[trombonejb]

What I was taught as a kid, is that the Tbn is a mercurial instrument. That it sits between other instruments to complete them in a musical setting. That it has many facets, from dark and sombre through brilliant to romantic.
That it lends itself to situations where a horn section needs the maximum amount of tonal variation that can also blend together well, as in the classic (commercial) section of Trumpet Sax and Tbn.

In short, talk about what the Tbn does and can do as well as what it is.

Awesome! Thanks for the comment!