Tablets

[BflatBass]

Anyone use a tablet for reading their music in performances? If so, can anyone recommend one that is big enough yet not too powerful because it would be used JUST for reading music. I think this would come in really handy especially for turning pages but the cost makes it questionable.

Cheers,
Robert

[Matt K]

Problem is that most tablets are meant for watching movies, so their aspect ratio is widescreen which makes for a very narrow view. I use an iPad 2 that I bought nearly 5 years ago at this point. Its starting to run a little slow... though the battery is still okay. The screen is a little small but you can crop off the margins, which does help.

Due to the screen size... you actually do generally need something fairly beefy so that the battery lasts long enough. The screen is by far the biggest energy consuming part of the device, after all. Fortunately, there are starting to be 12" screens such as:

Lenovo A12
Google Pixel
iPad Pro
Surface 3

If I start getting a little more gig money in the near future I'm probably going to get a Surface 3 and put some kind of Linux OS on it and use that as my default reader myself.

[ghmerrill]

I have a Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Tablet that would probably be good for this since it's big enough and thin enough, and light enough, though I have no intention of using it for such. It's also overkill since it's pretty much of a serious development system (though I don't do that any longer). And it's properly thought of as a 2-in-1, and so is a bit schizoid about being a tablet when you tell it to. But when I was looking around prior to buying it, it seemed to me that Lenovo has some other relatively large screen possibilities that might work very well.

I got my X1 for $800 this past year -- which was basically a fire sale because they'd released the new version. So one other thing to do is to look for "last year's model", which you can sometimes get at something like a 50% discount. Or think of buying used if you can find something you can trust and get it at a dirt cheap price.

I've been happy with the Lenovo hardware. Much less happy with their software/system support, which has all moved to India. Their professional support group is whiz-bang. But you have to pay for it. This is the second Lenovo I've had. I was happier with the support experience for the first one. But I can't say that any others (except Apple, in the case of the iPad I got my wife) are better.

[BGuttman]

I've been trying a bunch of different tablets.

First thing I tried was a Lenovo X60. Really poor battery life. Then I went to a Nook. Kinda small. In bright light I couldn't see the image so it was a no-go for outdoor concerts. Latest one is a Lenovo X220. Much better battery life (about 4 hours). Image is still a bit small, but about the same size as a paper copy. Mine has a 2 finger touch screen so I can scroll my music down. Still, every so often it hangs up and I can't get the right page to load or shift the music. Real problem in the middle of a concert.

I've been looking at a Lenovo T440. Even better battery life, and multi finger touch screen. But I have to leave it "flat" (keyboard on the left and screen on the right) and manually rotate the image to read.

I haven't found a good app for marking up music (yes, I've had a few suggestions). Also, still not enough contrast in bright light.

[kingsk1117]

I have been using an iPad Pro for about 2 years using it only for playing in 3 bands, using the ForScore app with an AirTurn foot pedal for turning pages. The screen is just slightly smaller than an 8.5x11 sheet of paper. I also had an iPad 2 before that, but these old eyes were starting to have problems with the much smaller screen. I now use the older, smaller iPad to load all of the big band charts for all parts on it so if someone can't find a chart in their book during a gig (they usually miss-filed it), I can hand them the iPad with their missing part, then they read the smaller part (better than having no part). Both iPads are great for indoor gigs but if outdoors in bright sunlight, they can be tough to read. That usually happens to me about once per year. And I still have all the paper charts if it gets too bad.

I have recently been seeing ads for a new laptop with a removable keyboard that looks interesting and I think a little cheaper than an iPad Pro, but I can't remember the brand. Might be interesting to check out.

[ghmerrill]

FYI, my X1 has a removable keyboard that works well in general. Magnetic attachment. Just (literally) pull it off or push it up to the edge and it self-attaches. There have apparently been some problems with this in the past, but it looks as though (based on forum reports) Lenovo has ironed them out.

But if I intended to use this system primarily as a tablet, I'd be really irritated much of the time. It's a good example of what happens in the "UI design trying to serve two masters", or the "sure we can morph this desktop UI into a tablet UI" space -- at least in the MS world.

The point about how these all work in different lighting conditions is a good one. Currently it seems to be a limiting factor for all devices of this sort. I think the best I've seen in that regard is the (otherwise, yuck, Kindle, blech) KIndle Paperwhite approach. But even then the reflectivity of the screen is an issue. Physics. What's to say?

[harrisonreed]

Tablets are such a hassle. It becomes worth it if you are using it as a real book.

[Matt K]

The point about how these all work in different lighting conditions is a good one. Currently it seems to be a limiting factor for all devices of this sort. I think the best I've seen in that regard is the (otherwise, yuck, Kindle, blech) KIndle Paperwhite approach. But even then the reflectivity of the screen is an issue. Physics. What's to say?

Hah, actually I wish they made a 12" paperwhite. I'd buy it immediately. I really dig mine but it obviously is useless for music at its current size. A non-trivial issue would be that markups would be difficult or impossible, at least the way I conceive of it but maybe not.

[ghmerrill]

It's somewhat amusing to me that here's a device (the Paperwhite) that might actually be made into a very useful product for limited purposes (as, for example, the inexpensive kid-oriented Kindles are). But Amazon doesn't appear to want to go in that direction but to continue in the direction of providing a lame pseudo-tablet which is okay for reading Amazon-formatted books and at best marginal for any other use. It's a lesson in "Once you (hastily) pick a poor approach to a technology, how long should you stick with it and what criteria should enter that decision?"

[Matt K]

It's somewhat amusing to me that here's a device (the Paperwhite) that might actually be made into a very useful product for limited purposes (as, for example, the inexpensive kid-oriented Kindles are). But Amazon doesn't appear to want to go in that direction but to continue in the direction of providing a lame pseudo-tablet which is okay for reading Amazon-formatted books and at best marginal for any other use. It's a lesson in "Once you (hastily) pick a poor approach to a technology, how long should you stick with it and what criteria should enter that decision?"

Yeah, I can't stand using it with the stock method of transferring books. There's a very useful app called Calibre that I use for my library that transfers ebooks quite nicely to it. It would he awesome if there was some real firmware on it. I'm actually surprised SOMEOME doesn't do something with that kind of display. Lots of office workers dealimg with text. I'd love a monitor that just did text in the same fashion

[2bobone]

Egad !! I must be a couple of centuries older than I thought ! Have trombone parts to Brass Bands, Orchestras, Big Bands and Solo Recitals become so over burdened with hemi- demi-semi -quavers that we need an electronic device to turn the pages for us ? After a LOT of years with a bass trombone stuffed into my pie-hole I must confess that I never ran into a manuscript part [Manuscript : A document written by hand which provides employment for a bunch of guys who understand our needs better than we do ] that was so obstructive that I needed a second hand to help with the onerous task of flipping a 2mg weight piece of paper to another 2 mg weight piece of paper. Don't get me wrong ---- I LOVE technology ----- without it I'd still have to walk from place to place ------ stoke up a fire to keep warm through the long Winter nights ---- and even need to resort to reading a book for entertainment [Kudos to Herr Gutenberg]. But, really ! Are we trombonists, the "Kings of Goose Eggs" [Whole notes, for the uninformed ] really so in need of such a device that is more expensive than a boutique mouthpiece, has a limited battery life, a propensity to not be seen coherently in daylight, and a likelihood of crapping out in the middle of those non-existent 64th note runs that we trombonists encounter on occasion [actually ---- Never ---- if we do, it's either already memorized or called a glissando] ? I highly approve of those who have blessed us with their creations of instruments of unparalleled quality and those who maintain the vintage horns we so enjoy and those who are willing to cater to our needs for devices to hold, record and repair our beloved burdens. But come on, folks ----- get a grip ---- on your trombones ! I have encountered two individuals who have used electronic devices to scroll through their music during performances and one of them is no longer doing so. Both were violinists [ Masters of the hemi-demi-semi-quaver ] and I strongly suspect that the one who discontinued the practice did so because of technical difficulties with their electronic friend. As for me, I'm selling my stock in Microsoft and buying some Hammer Mill Bond. Paper is here to stay. Otherwise, how would we have a "Paper Trail" to follow ? [Polling places take note ----] Get-A-Grip ! [ Not an advertisement ] Cheers to all !!

[BGuttman]

I just did a rehearsal for a show where I need to turn pages in eighth rests (notes on the other side). Also, the book tended to have the pages stick together. An electronic system can allow me to scroll past the bad page turn, and it usually doesn't double flip.

Also, on my Tablet I have a collection of method books to work on when I have a break, some Fake Books, as well as Euphonium parts to 300 concert band pieces. Carrying all that paper would require a large case.

Paper is good, but sometimes the electronics can be good too.

[Neo Bri]

Problem is that most tablets are meant for watching movies, so their aspect ratio is widescreen which makes for a very narrow view. I use an iPad 2 that I bought nearly 5 years ago at this point. Its starting to run a little slow... though the battery is still okay. The screen is a little small but you can crop off the margins, which does help.

Due to the screen size... you actually do generally need something fairly beefy so that the battery lasts long enough. The screen is by far the biggest energy consuming part of the device, after all. Fortunately, there are starting to be 12" screens such as:

Lenovo A12
Google Pixel
iPad Pro
Surface 3

If I start getting a little more gig money in the near future I'm probably going to get a Surface 3 and put some kind of Linux OS on it and use that as my default reader myself.

You can buy my Surface Pro 3. It's "special." I'll explain in person.

[Matt K]

You can buy my Surface Pro 3. It's "special." I'll explain in person.

I sincerely hope that means Cortana has developed a sassy personality of her own and talks back to you when you try to do things.

[ghmerrill]

There's a very useful app called Calibre that I use for my library that transfers ebooks quite nicely to it.

I'm using Calibre for a book I'm writing (to generate different formats from Epub). One of the best PD pieces of software I've come across, even if the original/primary developer is a little "brusque" about any criticisms/suggestions/requests from users. I haven't used it for transferring drafts of my book to the Kindle for testing, but now need to try that since the usual approach is a multi-step one that's a bit cumbersome. Usually I do initial testing on the PC KIndle emulator, but in the end that's not sufficient.

Thanks for the tip.

[ghmerrill]

Are we trombonists, ... really so in need of such a device that is more expensive than a boutique mouthpiece, has a limited battery life, a propensity to not be seen coherently in daylight, ...

NO! But we are in need of such a device that doesn't have these flaws. The technology just isn't quite there yet -- in terms of actual products; I'm pretty sure that it's there to be made use of, but just not suitably productized. I too am uninterested in using a tablet for reading music (for the reasons you mention and several others as well). But it's getting POSSIBLE to create a device that will satisfy most of these requirements. It's just not there yet. I mean, imagine your music having it's own built-in stand light ... or maybe a stand that does the display for you (you just plug your digitized music into it), ... etc.

I'm not much of a fan of having to keep original paper copies clean, dry, and unmarked; or having to run off digitized copies just to put them in a folder or binder. Or just the weight of our current play list slowly pushing the stand table down and out of sight. Nor am I a fan (in community bands) of "musicians" either marking up their parts in ink (thanks for putting in all those BBb fingerings, but I'm playing an Eb horn) or in pencil and then not erasing them. And I love it when the other old geezers sitting around me get their pages out of order or drop then in the puddles from water valves on the floor. Yeah, I really enjoy that.

Sure, we should all be reading paper books (and whatever newspapers are left, assuming you can afford them). I don't like reading books off a screen either. But ... wait ... what exactly are we doing RIGHT NOW?

[Matt K]

I'm using Calibre for a book I'm writing (to generate different formats from Epub). One of the best PD pieces of software I've come across, even if the original/primary developer is a little "brusque" about any criticisms/suggestions/requests from users. I haven't used it for transferring drafts of my book to the Kindle for testing, but now need to try that since the usual approach is a multi-step one that's a bit cumbersome. Usually I do initial testing on the PC KIndle emulator, but in the end that's not sufficient.

Yeah the developer is a very interesting guy. The app is coded in Python 2 and the developer is very adamant about how, in 2020 when Python 2 loses support totally after being on schedule to be deprecated for over a decade now, will be "unshackled" So we'll see what happens. Fortunately, even without support its a desktop application with limited connectivity ability so it'll pobably be fine.

[ghmerrill]

Haven't kept up at all with Python evolution. Last I did serious development in it was probably just over 10 years ago. Did some (fairly large, big data, compute-heavy) prototyping with it and then switched to C# (for a variety of production and run-time reasons). I love both of those languages.

I suppose that comment about being "unshackled" means he won't have to remain backward compatible. I've just glanced at a few places where the 2-3 differences are described and don't see any big deals. Wouldn't be surprised if some 2->3 translators pop up for use with large applications. Not like there isn't a perfectly good Python compiler to build them on.

[thatme]

The other problem you run into in using tablets outdoors (other than glare) is that they can heat up and automatically turn themselves off -- this is definitely an issue for iPads.

I agree with others that a dedicated device that solved many of these problems would be nice, but the market for such a device is likely too small.

[ghmerrill]

The market will expand as the cost comes down. My grandchildren have Amazon tablets that are almost in the use it and toss it category. Of course, the market there is much larger (and I think they get them on discount ). But a few years ago, what they have would have cost several hundred dollars. If somebody gets the bright idea to target the music community and partners with a major orchestra or two, or a couple of the service bands, or a couple of music schools, I think it will be off to the races. Something like that will also be needed to drive user-oriented development -- in order to avoid a product that some software developer thinks is just great because it has a menuing system he thought up. But yeah, it will be a while.

[StefanHaller]

I agree with others that a dedicated device that solved many of these problems would be nice, but the market for such a device is likely too small.

There are attempts at such a thing out there already. Crazy expensive, though:

https://www.gvido.tokyo/

https://www.padformusician.com/en/

[ghmerrill]

There are attempts at such a thing out there already. Crazy expensive, though:

Slick! But at those prices, I regard the products as still in a kind of prototype stage. Too expensive for wide-spread adoption -- although maybe with bulk pricing for something like a 100-piece orchestra, or music schools ... Then wait for the trickle-down effect.

[BflatBass]

Well believe it or not, the reason I thought about this is because some of the tunes we play in concert band are 4 to 6 pages long and when I turn pages I miss 3 to 6 bars depending on the tempo. And that's if the page turn goes smoothly!
This GVIDO would be ideal when paired with a bluetooth device like airturn or page flip, other than the price! And I have no use for a tablet other than to read music which would be a waste. I'll just have to miss a few bars until the price of a dedicated device comes down....waaay down!

Another thing to think about...
Picture a concert setting with a large orchestra or band on stage and everyone is using an electronic device for reading their music. What would it look like to the audience? I would think it would be noticeable even if the stage was well lit. Maybe not obtrusive but still noticeable.

[Tarkus697]

I’ve been using an iPad Pro for several months with my horn band in conjunction with ForScore and an iRig Bluetooth pedal to turn pages. Works great for me and don’t have to lug around a huge book full of paper anymore.

[GabrielRice]

I have a Samsung Galaxy tablet that is fine for practicing but not quite big enough to perform from comfortably. I wish they made a 12" version - it would be perfect. With a smaller internal memory capacity, they can be about half the price of an ipad, and the Samsungs accept mini HD cards to expand the memory. ForScore doesn't have an android version to my knowledge, but there is an app that does the same things and works well.

[GabrielRice]

Anybody tried this one?

https://www.amazon.com/Touchscreen-Feat ... 7SWAVP05E6

[ghmerrill]

Anybody tried this one?

Interesting, but some initial reactions:

The 32G one may be a lot cheaper, but availability is questionable. Surely you wouldn't need 64G.

I didn't look at the whole question/answer list, but it's not clear to me what kind of ports it has on it. I'm assuming at least a USB, which should be enough.

Not clear what the life of a charge is on it.

I would be reluctant to use an Android-based device for the sort of software that most people are envisioning for their music -- assuming it's even available for the Android. I doubt you can put a different OS on it, but that would open up more attractive alternatives.

Quality of display for music is critical. Unclear (especially from some of the comments) if this is up to the task.

[DutchGuy]

I've been using a tablet for sheet music for about 3 years now.
I started using it because 1. I forgot to collect all my music for rehearsals, or just lost it. 2. I hated switching binders and music folders every time I had to go to a different rehearsal.
Especially if you have a lot of music, or different bands, tablets are really useful. I will never go back to ordinary sheet music

The most important things to consider:
aspect ratio: Don't get a widescreen tablet. Use one with 3 by 4 ratio. Ipads have this, but some android ones as well.
Battery life, tablet speed, and bluetooth are important.
Get one from a decent well known brand, so that you can get a decent protective case for it. It will probably be mounted onto a stand and lots of people may walk past it and accidently hit it.

I have a Samsung Tab A, one of the early models with built-in S-pen for notations. It's 9,7 inches. May sound small, but it's definitely big enough for most eyes. The Tab S models have a higher resolution, but same ratio. These will work even better I guess, but are more expensive. Mine has a battery that lasts for about 10 hours I would guess.

I use it with MobileSheets Pro app. It costs a one-time fee of 13 euros (I think?), but it's amazing. It has a crop function that can remove the white edges around the music. You can have different libraries, collections, playlists and so on. Notations are easy, with in-built stamps for frequently used notations.
I store my music on my PC, and synchronize it using Dropbox to all my mobile devices.

For page turning, I use an AirTurn PED. That's the small portable one, although I sometimes wish I had gotten the regular one because the pedals are easier to hit.

[GabrielRice]

I have a Samsung Tab A, one of the early models with built-in S-pen for notations. It's 9,7 inches. May sound small, but it's definitely big enough for most eyes. The Tab S models have a higher resolution, but same ratio. These will work even better I guess, but are more expensive. Mine has a battery that lasts for about 10 hours I would guess.

I have a Tab S. I guess I should go ahead and buy an AirTurn

[timothy42b]

Last year at American Trombone Workshop, I noticed all the strings in the Army orchestra were using tablets.

In two community bands I play with, the tuba player has scanned all his music and uses a tablet.

I've been doing my book reading on my Kindle Fire because I'm struggling with some vision issues and I can make the pages very large. I don't care how few words on a page, it's easy to flip. when I tried it with music it didn't work. I put a PDF on there. I could make it big enough to read, but it wouldn't flip the right amount of distance so I could never find the next line. I tried several formats without success.

It does occur to me that scanning is a form of reproduction which is forbidden by copyright law, even if it weren't then easy to share digitally with the world.

[BGuttman]

Technically, scanning your music is against copyright law.

But if it's only for your personal use I doubt anybody is going to beat down your door and haul you off to jail.

Copyright law was intended to prevent people from using things without buying them. Buying a piece of music and scanning it doesn't mean somebody lost a sale.

There needs to be a n update to copyright law that deals with 21st century technology. But unless it keeps Mickey Mouse under perpetual copyright, don't hold your breath.

[AndrewMeronek]

I recently did a big band gig where the lead trumpet player forgot his book and ended up having his wife generously snap pics of his parts and send to him via smartphone. He was reading from his phone on the stand. I have to imagine he got his wife a nice box of chocolates after that gig.

[Spemrick]

Just thought I would post a couple photos of before and after with the band I play with to show the different looks. One is before we made the switch and the other is after. Personally I think it looks much better with the iPads, and they make negotiating our book much easier. It’s just a question of whether it is something that you want to do, and will help your situation, but the tech is here to stay.

[Spemrick]

Sorry here is the second picture. Still figuring out this picture thing

[whitbey]

I seen a tablet battery go down at a concert. Then while messing with it his stand fell over into another tablet that fell and broke the screen.

[Driswood]

I have been using an iPad Pro for about 2 years using it only for playing in 3 bands, using the ForScore app with an AirTurn foot pedal for turning pages. The screen is just slightly smaller than an 8.5x11 sheet of paper. I also had an iPad 2 before that, but these old eyes were starting to have problems with the much smaller screen. I now use the older, smaller iPad to load all of the big band charts for all parts on it so if someone can't find a chart in their book during a gig (they usually miss-filed it), I can hand them the iPad with their missing part, then they read the smaller part (better than having no part). Both iPads are great for indoor gigs but if outdoors in bright sunlight, they can be tough to read. That usually happens to me about once per year. And I still have all the paper charts if it gets too bad.

I have recently been seeing ads for a new laptop with a removable keyboard that looks interesting and I think a little cheaper than an iPad Pro, but I can't remember the brand. Might be interesting to check out.

I use the exact same setup. A 10.5 iPad Pro, with ForScore, and an AirTurn pedal. I have music for 10 bands, as well as method and etude books. I don’t have any problem in bright sunlight.

[pbone3b]

For the past couple of years, I've been using the predecessor to this guy:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... ablet.html
Lenovo, Android, bright 10" screen, $179.

Mobile Sheets Pro:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... esheetspro
For Setlists, organizing, etc...

Q-Press has tons and tons of music/method books (all Legit PDFs)
https://qpress.ca/product-category/trombone/

I use it for 5 or so different groups. Synced with dropbox, google.
Got my Arbans and others on there, makes for easy traveling.
Works pretty great.