prices on classifieds

[jacobgarchik]

Classified ads should have prices. eBay is for auctions and offers. "make me an offer" just leads to hurt feelings and confusion.
In the tuba forum this is mandatory.

[Matt K]

eBay and others are for items that are intending to be sold with some degree of haste. A lot of items here (particularly rare horns) are not something that the seller are intending to part with easily nor quickly but will for the right price or for the right trade/combination of trades (which is likely to be undefined until you are made an offer of what else is available!). We have no time-out period for ads and the more valuable something is, the more its price will fluctuate, particularly in comparison to other horns. So we allow for the option of both quick sales as well as longer-term availability of items.

[hyperbolica]

For what it's worth, I agree with jacobgarchik. I never bother with things the seller doesn't bother to value. As a buyer you don't have access to the item. The practice just seems disreputable. Almost as if there's a hope someone will overbid.

[JohnL]

If it doesn't have a price on it, it's not really for sale...

[ghmerrill]

In general I agree in principle with these sorts of comments. But in practice, I don't see much point to imposing a requirement for a stated price. Most of us will have the same reaction to such postings -- which is to ignore them. In general, I think they're harmful to the seller (who won't be getting any offers because people are ignoring the "no price" offering) more than to the reader or potential buyer who can just ignore them.

Then the only remaining argument is one of parsimony: they create a kind of clutter in the forum that should be avoided. About this I do not feel strongly one way or the other. I do feel that often (as Matt and others seem to suggest) such postings are often "fishing expeditions" and not real offers to sell. But shouldn't there be a place for such things? If not in the classified ads, then where?

[jacobgarchik]

what if they got their own sub-board?
"name your price" or something?

[hyperbolica]

I didn't mention it because I want the practice banned or separated from other classifieds, I just wanted to weigh in as thinking it's obnoxious. The people who do it are in a position to prevent anything being done about it, so all we can really do is call it out for what it is - obnoxious.

[ghmerrill]

I guess I'm a little more charitable in outlook. While I wouldn't ever make such a posting myself, I think that often it's done by people who just don't have a sense of the value of the item and can't seem to research that or are thinking of the posting as that sort of research. Maybe the "seller" is 80 years old and has an almost unused King Liberty from the 30s that's been in his closet for decades. More along the lines of "I've got this, want to sell it, but don't have any idea what to ask for it." And sometimes (definitely on other boards I follow) this is done by people who don't play the instrument and know absolutely nothing about it, maybe inherited it, and want to sell it just for a reasonable price. So not really obnoxious in that case from my perspective. On the other hand, it would be better just to post that sort of query explicitly -- but then probably not in the classified ads.

What I don't care for are the ones that have the tone "I've been thinking about maybe selling this horn, but haven't decided yet. Shoot me an offer and I'll think about it." Now THAT at least borders closely on the obnoxious. But again, it's easy to just ignore it.

[Bach5G]

There’s no problem asking for opinions about the value of an instrument is there?

[hyperbolica]

There's no problem not knowing or asking the value of something. The folks I'm thinking of who do this definitely know the value. To me, the obnoxious part would be "I know what I paid for this, and what I think the value is, but all I need is one person to make an emotional decision and offer me more than I have the balls to ask for."

[afugate]

Perhaps we should create a separate "make an offer" area within the classifieds?

--Andy in OKC

[jacobgarchik]

The more classifieds clearly list an asking price and a sales price, the less people will need to ask "what's my horn worth"?

[norbie2018]

I never bother with ads that do not list a price either. I find no reason to make a rule regarding it. Why not simply let our market place decide for us: posters will learn what consumers like in the ads and will list then appropriately.

[Matt K]

I never bother with ads that do not list a price either. I find no reason to make a rule regarding it. Why not simply let our market place decide for us: posters will learn what consumers like in the ads and will list then appropriately.

That's precisely my opinion on the matter. I've posted things without value before simply because I didn't have time to evaluate its price. Not everyone has exactly the same circumstances. There are lots of posts where a drawer-full of mouthpieces, for example. I seem to recall someone selling upwards of 50 in one ad. They contained almost no information other than generic condition and the model number. Taking and uploading 50-100 pictures is quite time consuming much less Googling every last one. And in the case of slightly more antiquated ones (Olds 3, King 29, etc.). However, if you put it out there and 10 people contact you, you know which 10 to take pictures of and do research on. That's 20% of the effort, which could equate to hours of time saved.

It could just as easily be argued that if you want a price to be a requirement that you are hoping they will negotiate the price against themselves. The inevitable response to circumvent this requirement, as demonstrated on the Facebook marketplace, has been to offer things at an extremely reasonable price of $123,456 (Loud mouthpieces retail price aside, of course ). That is obviously not a reasonable price, but what is 'reasonable'? That leaves moderators in the position of appraisers ,which shifts the category of this site largely into a consignment ship which I personally have no intention of being.

That is aprticularly because there are some great places that go through the process of appraising prices and they only take a small % off the top:

Noah Gladstone at the Brassark is great to work with. He seldom has mouthpieces or other misc. items from what i can tell though sometimes he does and they just aren't listed. Last I worked with him, he charged 15% of the sale price but he offers returns/trial periods, works with you to get something that is a good fit, etc. etc.

Dillon Music actually has a really great site. If you haven't checked it in a few years, it's worth going back and checking out the redesign. They have a myriad of used parts, including even Elliott components, leadpipes, bell sections though full horns. They also have an arrangement with FedEx that is definitely cheaper than their normal retail service. They got a ProTec gig bag to me in 2 days for like $4... from NJ to UT. If you go to their trombone page:
https://www.dillonmusic.com/brass/tromb ... 5B%5D=6824
and navigate to the left side, you'll see a Used filter. All of their items have pricing information and a pretty high quality picture. I'm failing to remember their trombone guy off the top of my head but he's been great to work with in the past. (He won the ETW jazz competition a few years back too so he's a heck of a player too! fwiw)

I've never done any work with The Brass Exchange, but I almost did a trade with them that fell through (long story wasn't their fault at all). Similar to Dillon, you can go to their trombone page and filter by Used.

Then of course, there are myriad Facebook groups that require pricing information. As I mentioned above... that seems to result in people asking ridiculously high prices for thing (or new retail value). Or... more... than retail value. I occasionally see people offering things for higher than retail ther although I can't think of the instance off the top of my head, I seem to remember the most eggregious example of that being an unmodified Mack Brass bass for like $1800.

[sungfw]

There's no problem not knowing or asking the value of something. The folks I'm thinking of who do this definitely know the value. To me, the obnoxious part would be "I know what I paid for this, and what I think the value is, but all I need is one person to make an emotional decision and offer me more than I have the balls to ask for."

Prospective buyers make offers based on their valuation of an item. If their valuation is higher than the seller's, with the result that they offer more than the seller expected, so be it. As long as the buyer and seller agree on the price, what's the problem. That's the way capitalism works.

Prospective buyers also rarely, if ever, offer the full amount of their valuation up front, even if their valuation is higher than the asking price. Instead, they try to bargain the price down, even if it's stated that the price is firm. If it's obnoxious for a seller not to list a price in an attempt to receive something closer to his or her full valuation, why is it any less obnoxious for prospective buyers to offer sellers less than their full asking price?

[hyperbolica]

I've bought a lot (dozens?) of horns here in the last 5 years. Usually just to play for a while and sell it on to the next person to play. I don't make money on it, but I sometimes break even. There are a lot of great folks to do trades with, and a couple to avoid. I personally find it obnoxious when people don't list a price. I also find it obnoxious when people low ball me. If I don't really want to sell a horn, I put a "retail" type price on it, that has happened more than once. I don't think we should try to enforce better behavior, I think sellers should know that ads without prices get ignored a fair bit.

[sungfw]

I think sellers should know that ads without prices get ignored a fair bit.

Fine by me. Just means less competition for those of us who DON'T ignore them.

[PosaunePal]

^I second that, I have no problem with having to message a seller for a price/ give them an offer on an item.