Question about transposition

[Gary]

I got a little confused lately. I read a comment that trombone was actually a Bb instrument. When one writes for trombone, don't you just notate "what you see is what you get"? In other words, if I want a concert C, don't I just write a C for trombone? Thanks, Gary.

[AndrewMeronek]

Trombones are non-transposing. Just write the pitches you want. With one exception: in British brass band tradition, it's standard to write for trombone in Bb-octave-transposed treble clef, like a tenor saxophone.

The 'Bb instrument' thing as applied to trombone usually only refers to its fundamental pitch - i.e. the pitch sounding in 1st position for the pedal tone.

[timothy42b]

Trombone is a Bb instrument meaning it is pitched in Bb. (Except when it's not, like G basses, Eb or F altos, C parson's trombones. But I digress)

Trombone sheet music is most commonly C music. (in the US)

The most common trumpet in a high school band is a Bb trumpet. But it most commonly will read Bb sheet music.

So just distinguish between the instrument and the sheet music, and you'll be fine.

[bimmerman]

Yep, unless notated as Bb Treble, it's concert pitches without transposing (including using regular treble for high stuff above tenor/alto clef zones)

If you do see a part in Bb treble, just read as if it's tenor clef and add two flats (be wary of some accidentals). No (further) transposing needed.

[paulyg]

This could be total BS, but in my experience the transposition comes after the instrument name, and the fundamental pitch before. Some examples:

Bb Trombone in C- standard way of writing stuff
Bb Trumpet in Bb- standard trumpet music
F Trumpet in F- old F trumpet music, sounds a fourth higher than written (I think)
C Trumpet in A- transposing trumpet part (written in A), played on a C Trumpet

Generally the pitch of the instrument will not be specified by a composer. I can't think of any times where I've seen this.

This is a much bigger issue for trumpet players. We made it 6 weeks into rehearsals with our university orchestra playing John Adams's "The Chairman Dances" before the trumpets realized that their parts were in C. They had been reading them on Bb trumpets the entire time... and not transposing. Could have been the piece, but there really wasn't a noticeable difference after they made the change.

[AndrewMeronek]

Generally the pitch of the instrument will not be specified by a composer. I can't think of any times where I've seen this.

This may be the case sometimes, but composers really need to indicate a transposition in modern practice. There is a huge difference between a clarinet in A and a clarinet in Bb, for example. Not just the written pitch, but the 'break' changes and a composer needs to accommodate that in some kinds of licks. Similar ideas apply for most other transposing instruments.

[paulyg]

Generally the pitch of the instrument will not be specified by a composer. I can't think of any times where I've seen this.

This may be the case sometimes, but composers really need to indicate a transposition in modern practice. There is a huge difference between a clarinet in A and a clarinet in Bb, for example. Not just the written pitch, but the 'break' changes and a composer needs to accommodate that in some kinds of licks. Similar ideas apply for most other transposing instruments.

For the clarinet's case, I'm pretty sure parts are marked "Clarinet in A" or "Clarinet in Bb," with corresponding transpositions. Similarly to trumpets, it's up to the clarinet player to choose an A clarinet or Bb clarinet for the part.

[Gary]

I appreciate the thoughts, but all I really wanted to know is if I'm daft or does a C equal a C and it does. Thanks.

p.s. composers designate the transpositions all the time.

[NorthernEuph]

As a general rule, instruments that play in bass clef (trombone, bassoon, cello, etc.) do not transpose and sound the pitch that is written in their part. String basses, however, sound one octave lower than written. Tenor and alto clef for trombone sound at pitch, as well.

The exceptions are treble clef euphonium and trombone parts in treble clef that sound a ninth lower than written (transposed exactly like bass clarinet and tenor sax). Bb below middle C on the piano is written as third space C.

Another rather rare exception is the tenor tuba parts in Strauss that are in Bb, even though written in bass clef. In that case, the sounding pitch is one whole step lower than written. That one really messes with me.