How can we support the evolution of jazz on the trombone?

[mgladdish]

I've got a week coming up in London. Besides Ronnie Scott's, where else can I go to here jazz, very open minded.

Ooh, when are you over? I could suggest a few.

Most is listed here: https://jazzlondonlive.com/

[henrysa]

We arrive on May 22, depart for home on May 28th. We are small town folks so very appreciative for any tips. Thank you.

[mgladdish]

We arrive on May 22, depart for home on May 28th. We are small town folks so very appreciative for any tips. Thank you.

Alright then, here's what I'd pick from those dates.

22nd: Ed Richardson big band at Ronnies will be fab - that's a ridiculous trombone section.
https://www.ronniescotts.co.uk/find-a-s ... urt-elling

22nd: Heidi Vogel - Ivo Neame's on it, and he's a genius
https://www.606club.co.uk/events/view/heidi-vogel/

22nd: Tivon Pennicott could be fun at The Vortex:
https://www.vortexjazz.co.uk/event/tivo ... m-release/

(blimey, there's so much good stuff on the 22nd!)

22nd: Ant Law is an astonishingly good guitarist
https://www.brasseriezedel.com/events/s ... _id=926097

24th: Chris Dean - Songs of Tony Bennett
Chris is a fine singer and an even better trombonist. He's got that super-sweet silky Dorsey thing down, better than anyone I've heard. He's been running the Syd Lawrence Orchestra for aeons, too.
https://www.jazzcafeposk.org/event/chri ... y-bennett/

25th: Tom Smith Quartet
https://www.606club.co.uk/events/view/t ... h-quartet/

26th: Mike Gorman and Brigitte Beraha
Brigitte's a treasure - into free improvisation and vocal effects
https://www.musicglue.com/karamel/event ... io-karamel

27th: Art Themen quartet at The Oval Tavern, East Croydon.
A bit out of central london and I'd recommend booking if you want to go to this one as it's just in a back street pub. But Art's a living legend having played with absolutely everyone in his time


That should do it!

[henrysa]

Mgladdish, jaw dropping, my God what a list to choose from! From a 4B player to a 3B player, a million thanks.

[LetItSlide]

Supporting the evolution of jazz on the trombone is a separate question from popularizing the trombone, or drawing more attention to the trombone.

Seems to me jazz on the trombone has been very extensively explored, developed and evolved.

As far as getting the trombone’s voice heard by the masses, a couple of names stand out.

[FranzS]

For me, one of the most interisting young trombonists is Raphael Rocha.
If you don‘t know him, here is an example

[Richard3rd]

I tried asking a question related to this in another thread I started and got nowhere. So I'll ask it in another way.

Where are the trombone lead groups where the trombone is the only horn? I've been looking. I don't mean the player is part of a big band getting a solo. I mean the small band is built around the trombone. And I don't mean a group of trombones as in a duo, trio or quartet of bones. Just one trombone and any size rhythm section.

[tbdana]

I tried asking a question related to this in another thread I started and got nowhere. So I'll ask it in another way.

Where are the trombone lead groups where the trombone is the only horn? I've been looking. I don't mean the player is part of a big band getting a solo. I mean the small band is built around the trombone. And I don't mean a group of trombones as in a duo, trio or quartet of bones. Just one trombone and any size rhythm section.

Well, we've had them all throughout jazz history, right? JJ Johnson, Phil Wilson, Urbie Green, Carl Fontana, Frank Rosolino, and Bill Watrous have done it, just to name a few. The recordings I've posted on this very website of my own playing are of exactly that configuration.

But if you're asking modernly, there isn't much of it at the moment. Marshall Gilkes has done some. Bob McChesney has, too. And there are others, but it is isolated, and it's not popular. I look at the smooth jazz idiom and wonder where the trombones are. Saxes galore, trumpets, guitars, pianos....not a single smooth jazz group led by a trombonist.

[mgladdish]

I tried asking a question related to this in another thread I started and got nowhere. So I'll ask it in another way.

Where are the trombone lead groups where the trombone is the only horn? I've been looking. I don't mean the player is part of a big band getting a solo. I mean the small band is built around the trombone. And I don't mean a group of trombones as in a duo, trio or quartet of bones. Just one trombone and any size rhythm section.

Well, we've had them all throughout jazz history, right? JJ Johnson, Phil Wilson, Urbie Green, Carl Fontana, Frank Rosolino, and Bill Watrous have done it, just to name a few. The recordings I've posted on this very website of my own playing are of exactly that configuration.

But if you're asking modernly, there isn't much of it at the moment. Marshall Gilkes has done some. Bob McChesney has, too. And there are others, but it is isolated, and it's not popular. I look at the smooth jazz idiom and wonder where the trombones are. Saxes galore, trumpets, guitars, pianos....not a single smooth jazz group led by a trombonist.

But I think that's the point. Nobody's saying they've never existed, just there are vanishingly few and we have to trawl through decades to find enough to list. Check out https://www.ronniescotts.co.uk/find-a-show or https://www.smallslive.com/ and try to play spot the trombone-led small group. Saxes and trumpets a-plenty. Trombones? Not a peep. Or should that be parp?

I'm also trying to keep the two distinct concepts of evolution and popularity separate. Sure, they feed in to each other, and the former is much easier to sustain with the latter, but some of the most innovative music has been deeply unpopular at the time. It's comparatively vanishingly rare that the groundbreaking stuff is popular whilst it's happening. E.g. Django Bates has been writing astonishing music for decades and has been scratching around for work forever.

[LetItSlide]

I sometimes like listening to smooth jazz, but hearing sax all the time makes it tiresome. Especially soprano sax. That instrument can really grate on my nerves.

And, I've often thought this kind of music could work with the right kinds of trombone playing. So, yeah, where are the trombones?

[harrisonreed]

I sometimes like listening to smooth jazz, but hearing sax all the time makes it tiresome. Especially soprano sax. That instrument can really grate on my nerves.

What are you even talking about?

[Richard3rd]

I tried asking a question related to this in another thread I started and got nowhere. So I'll ask it in another way.

Where are the trombone lead groups where the trombone is the only horn? I've been looking. I don't mean the player is part of a big band getting a solo. I mean the small band is built around the trombone. And I don't mean a group of trombones as in a duo, trio or quartet of bones. Just one trombone and any size rhythm section.

Well, we've had them all throughout jazz history, right? JJ Johnson, Phil Wilson, Urbie Green, Carl Fontana, Frank Rosolino, and Bill Watrous have done it, just to name a few. The recordings I've posted on this very website of my own playing are of exactly that configuration.

But if you're asking modernly, there isn't much of it at the moment. Marshall Gilkes has done some. Bob McChesney has, too. And there are others, but it is isolated, and it's not popular. I look at the smooth jazz idiom and wonder where the trombones are. Saxes galore, trumpets, guitars, pianos....not a single smooth jazz group led by a trombonist.

I found this and it gives me hope.

[Posaunus]

I sometimes like listening to smooth jazz, but hearing sax all the time makes it tiresome. Especially soprano sax. That instrument can really grate on my nerves.

What are you even talking about?

Excuse me I had to take a long break. But it's all cleaned up now.

[LetItSlide]

I sometimes like listening to smooth jazz, but hearing sax all the time makes it tiresome. Especially soprano sax. That instrument can really grate on my nerves.

What are you even talking about?

[tbdana]

I sometimes like listening to smooth jazz, but hearing sax all the time makes it tiresome. Especially soprano sax. That instrument can really grate on my nerves.

What are you even talking about?

Jeebus. After listening to those two wildly successful performers, suddenly I'm thinking I deserve a billion dollar career.

[harrisonreed]

What are you even talking about?

Jeebus. After listening to those two wildly successful performers, suddenly I'm thinking I deserve a billion dollar career.

If you watch at around 1:38 of the first video, you can see the true genius of the faux Kenny. He somehow makes that solo resolve properly.

Much better and more sonically interesting than real Kenny in video two, holding the same note for two minutes while people go "oh my god, wow" in the foreground.

[Posaunus]

Jeebus. After listening to those two wildly successful performers, suddenly I'm thinking I deserve a billion dollar career.

If you watch at around 1:38 of the first video, you can see the true genius of the faux Kenny. He somehow makes that solo resolve properly.

Much better and more sonically interesting than real Kenny in video two, holding the same note for two minutes while people go "oh my god, wow" in the foreground.

I think I'm sick again.

Guess I'd better play some long tones!

[iranzi]

delete

[iranzi]

deleted

[Savio]

I think we as teachers for young kids have a responsibility to include improvisation into our teaching. Kids are very open. I have some blues backing tracks where I tell them to use some few notes to make an improvisation. But they mostly like bebop and faster tunes. When they start very young I also tell them to not always practice songs or the lessons I give them. But also take time to just find up songs and do some wild things and just play whatever. They always love that.

Leif

[baileyman]

Most all the links in this thread show up bad for me. Nuts.

Jazz got away from singable melody and danceable rhythm. I think lots of listeners got lost at that point.

And the copyright nazis helped by hounding people playing the standards, and then locking up the rights and recordings behind increasingly long terms through legislation, much of what should have been our common heritage got privatized, and relatively hidden, it thus couldn't compete.

In a better world, music would be social infrastructure and we would pay people to do it for our benefit.

I'd love to hear these young players on standards. Like Gilkes, man, can he play anything that's not an original?