TromboneChat

Hello everyone,

I grew up browsing through the tromboneforum
(.org) every day, it was a fantastic resource for a boy from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean to learn about music, trombone, trombonists. It also was motivation for me to try just a little bit harder to understand and write in English, which was (and is) definitely needed.

I am very happy that despite the downfall of the old forum, people in charge came up with this forum and work hard to have an alternative for all of us.

It has not even been two years since this forum was created, so I understand that things take time.
Yet I am unhappy to see how slow it all is going, both in terms of member numbers as well as how slow conversations are going.

What are the reasons ? What can we do ? Is the forum just not a good enough alternative to Facebook ?

Maybe my assessment of the situation is wrong. What do you think.

I think it's a combination of a lot of things. The demise of TTF, plus Facebook, plus the elimination of political discussions, have all drawn people to other places and that's not necessarily a bad thing. . Also I think a lot of old TTF members still don't even know about TC. And we're all just busy with other things - I know I am.

I think Facebook is eating the TC’s lunch although the overall level of discourse on Facebook is pretty low.

@Doug Elliott

I completely missed the fact that here is no non trombone section, you are obviously right. I am a professional player and personally subscribe to the idea that this is a music forum and what Senator XYZ in whatever state proposed today, doesn’t belong here.

Then again, I felt that the slogan of ttf, “Music, Trombones, Life” (if I remember correctly) was well chosen as the off topic section allowed for people who enjoy playing trombone but also look for the social aspect, to have a community of sorts.

@Bach5G I wonder how much Facebook really takes away from here. A while back I would have thought that a forum like this one is obsolete due to social media. But I also believe that I see less activity on those groups as well.


I wonder how much of it depends just on the fact that the forum is just about two years or so old. Maybe things just take more time ?

RBB: and the TTF was itself a successor to the OTJ.

RustBeltBass wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:30 am I am very happy that despite the downfall of the old forum, people in charge came up with this forum and work hard to have an alternative for all of us.

It has not even been two years since this forum was created, so I understand that things take time.
Yet I am unhappy to see how slow it all is going, both in terms of member numbers as well as how slow conversations are going.

What are the reasons ? What can we do ? Is the forum just not a good enough alternative to Facebook ?

Maybe my assessment of the situation is wrong. What do you think.

I have thought about this a lot too. One thing that I have always been curious about is how people navigate through the forum. Are people clicking "new posts" and then leaving the site? Or are they going into each individual forum topic that interests them.

Personally, I got addicted to TC about 10 months ago when my daughter was born. She wouldn't sleep for the first 8 weeks without one of us holding her, so my wife and I spent a lot of times on our phones while my daughter slept for 2-3 hours. That's when I really dug into this forum. I was on TTF, but never said much. Now I'm obsessed with this forum. When I wake up in the morning I do 3 things, check my email, go on Facebook and then see what new posts happened on TC.

It's a great resource and it'd be awesome to get more people involved. I just don't know how. I'm in my early 30's and when I talk to other trombone players in the Chicago area, who are my age or younger, a lot of them are not interested in the forum. They have accounts, but don't frequent the site.

I check this forum often, and agree I wish there was more content. But I think that the decline corresponds to the decline in forums generally, which seem to have been replaced by Facebook groups for other hobbies.

Speaking of Facebook groups, are there any good ones I’m missing? I’m a member of the Trombone Marketplace, Trombone Pedagogy, and the Bass Trombone Appreciation Society. Any other good ones with interesting content?

The Facebook groups brought one big improvement: the “out in the open” discussion, meaning contributors have to post under their real name, putting their real name and reputation on the line. I like that as it accomplishes two things:
1. A major improvement of the seriousness of discussion.
2. A certain level of respect that must be maintained at all times (and almost always is).

Those two aspects make people who really have to at something a lot more likely to post than in the anonymity of a bulletin board.
Mr. Douglas Yeo once wrote an interesting article named “What happened to the Internet” in which touches these ideas a bit.


The downside is the format: Finding an interesting discussion again after just a few days can be tricky. I always thought the organization of bulletin is unbeatable. On Facebook I would have to switch between different groups (pedagogy, equipment etc.) all the time. Here I have it all at one place.

I don’t want this forum to diminish the value of the Facebook group, but I want it to be equally relevant. I hope that is possible.

I think the subject matter is the main problem with far to much talk about equipment rather than music. The selling of trombones and equipment is the chief topic and really most musicians are not interested in this, unless they are in the market. I think the For Sales should be hidden away.

I visit this forum every day but I very rarely post anything because there is nothing that interests me. As opposed to TTF, where I used to post two or three times most days.

The amount of discussion here seems about right to me. TTF was basically 97% posts from two or three people in the "Religion Matters!" (Hmmmmm ...) and purely politics forums. One person had about 26,000 posts, mostly about religion.

What are you hoping for, from such a specific forum as this one? There aren't too many "big discoveries" being made, and so much here is catalogued nicely. More discussion would probably just be banter, beyond the two or three decent topics that come out each week.

Back in 2007 or 2008 it seemed like everything was new because a lot hadn't been catalogued yet, but now a lot of stuff is kind of old news. But don't get me wrong, I love when questions come in from new players, even if they are common questions.

How ‘bout that ?

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/

RustBeltBass wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:30 amWhat are the reasons ?

In addition to all the thought already brought up, it's also the beginning of summer in the north hemisphere. I've been out of the forum admin/moderator thing for a while, but back when I was I noticed that there was always a drop in activity during the summer. When I look at the stats on my web site over the past several years there always seems to be a dip in hits over the summer months. School is out, people are on vacation, they are spending more time out than home in front of a computer, it's gigging season, etc.

Come end of August and September I expect activity will pick up here.

What can we do ?

I too would like to see more activity here. For me, it's a selfish desire because I mostly lurk and am more interested in reading than writing. Probably the best thing we could do would be to participate more ourselves. Activity generates more activity.


Dave

Great to read some of your comments on this topic. I was another one of those moderators from the TTF, serving until around 2008. We should all thank people like Dave Wilken, Joe Jackson Chris Stern and the Moderators, for keeping that ship afloat as long as they did. I think I started reading about trombones on the OTJ Forum and joined it. Back in the mid to late 1990's it garnered a lot of attention, because it was the only game in town, other than the Trombone-List, which, for those of you who do not know, it is a mailing list. The Trombone-List is still alive; however, the participating-membership does not participate like the...………"old-days!"

Those OTJ/TTF moderators who knew me, were well aware that I was not a fan of Chit-Chat; however, I knew I was beating a dead-horse, with my views. Chit-Chat was very popular with some with a lot of influence to the direction the TTF was taking. It caused a lot of friction within our trombone-family, with some dropping off TTF, over spats with other members, mainly over topics that had little to no business on a...………."trombone-centered-forum," in my view.

I do not participate in "social media," like Facebook or Twitter; thus, I have found this Forum to be a very good place to lurk-around and get back up to speed, after my hiatus from the TTF.

I will try to be a little more active, when time permits. I need to retire from my 1st retirement!

For me, it's a dilution thing. I belong to 12 Face Book-based trombone groups. We all only have so much time in a day and there is increasingly more competition for our attention. Look at all the channels and networks on tv! I like this iteration and props to all who make it be, but Trombone Chat is no longer the only game in Trombone Town and I could even argue that it is no longer the most prominent one any more. Hard to say which one is at this point!

thatme wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:01 pm Speaking of Facebook groups, are there any good ones I’m missing? I’m a member of the Trombone Marketplace, Trombone Pedagogy, and the Bass Trombone Appreciation Society. Any other good ones with interesting content?

I’d recommend joining “custom and vintage trombones of the world.” There’s also the “trombonechat-dot-com” FB group.

They all sound interesting but I'm already too busy for 24 hours in a day. Maybe if we could have 26 or 27 hour days... That would fit my internal cycle better anyway.

Yes there is less activity, but the posting quality is higher I think then it was on TTF.

But I still regret some members of TTF not making the move. Sam Burtis comes to mind.

As has been pointed out above, a lot has become common wisdom. No need to repeat and repeat...

I think some people have not come over because they feel a level of loyalty to Richard Byrd and are afraid Trombone Chat is a "usurper". We were created primarily because TTF had become unreliable with unexplained disappearances for days on end. We called ourselves the "lifeboat" -- a way to preserve TTF in the event Richard was unable to continue it.

Those of us who were Staff on TTF and came over to be staff here did it simply because we wanted the good parts of TTF to continue. We still respect and honor Richard Byrd and would hope he reopens TTF but that hasn't happened in quite a long time and as the time gets longer the resurrection of TTF becomes less likely.

TTF had a lot of information about trombones, brands and models. Some of that information was supplied for by very respected players. That is lost values. This forum can not be compared to what they had put there. Personally I began to think the old forum had less of interesting discussions a long time ago. This forum lost some of the characters that made the TTF interesting but at the same time new characters get space instead. Personally I miss the old threads about instruments. That was a joy to read. In time this forum might be as good as the old one.

/Tom

Thank you everyone for your input on this, it’s cool that you take the time.

When I started this topic a few days ago, we were 4920 members, now we hit 30 which is really encouraging.

The chit chat section seems to always have been somewhat controversial and like I said before, I am not even a fan of it myself, but: If it gets people to be more involved and it allows them to vent about what’s on their mind, etc. it also increases the chance that they will ask more questions about music, trombones etc. Of course there will always be people who look for fights, don’t care about anything but politics etc. But still it might worth considering it ?

What I do not seem to see here is a lot of fellow professional players posting, contributing. I believe that is part of what makes the trumpetherald and TubeNet so alive. I know there are SOME professional players who contribute here as well, but less than on Facebook. Which is a real shame. Maybe more meaningful topics, questions etc. might change that hopefully.

I think the forum would be more interesting if we could introduce our selves in the profile. What instruments we play is not very interesting. The experience on the other hand could be informative. It could be good to know something about all who are lurking here. Change the heading "Stable" to something else.

/Tom

thatme wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:01 pm Speaking of Facebook groups, are there any good ones I’m missing? I’m a member of the Trombone Marketplace, Trombone Pedagogy, and the Bass Trombone Appreciation Society. Any other good ones with interesting content?

I like "Jazz Trombonists on Facebook". I believe Paul The Trombonist owns that group.

For some odd reason, I am more likely to find vid clips and pics posted on the above & the other FB groups than on this one. Maybe it's easier or maybe it's more convenient or maybe it's my imagination or maybe it's just more of a FB thing. I

I guess the most annoying thing is when someone posts the same vid on every FB group.

But collectively, between FB and this group - I think we have it about all covered!

Yeah, that's pretty much it. Things are busy and this forum was started as a reaction to the potential of TTF kicking the bucket, which pretty much happened as predicted, and many members probably didn't move on afterwards.

I don't drop in here much - and ironically, it feels like most of the threads that I post to are threads bemoaning how this much-loved place doesn't have the same atmosphere as TTF did.

Why don't I drop in as much as I did on TTF? Several reasons, really - but the most important is that I don't get as much out of being here as I used to on TTF. I used to engage enthusiastically in the off-topic sections there, which kept me engaged after I'd read and said most of what I could usefully read and say on the trombone for the umpteenth time; others were the same. To my mind, that vigorous off-topic section was a vital part of what made the TTF interesting to people - I don't say 'loved' or 'valued' because many hated it, and sometimes it was indeed hateful - but it made the place vibrant, like a busy bar attached to a rehearsal room that some players would spend a lot of time in. It lent it an informal buzz that on-topic discussions can never generate.

As quoted in the thread above "Music, Trombones, Life" was the pitch of TTF. That isn't the pitch of this forum, and that is a fine and valid choice. But the difference brings both advantages and disadvantages.

Other reasons, largely as discussed - habit, Facebook, to some extent timed out on the material, loss of old faces with very valuable things to say. In broad terms, we're talking a critical mass effect. TTF very successfully managed to keep above that critical point during the years when many forums stagnated. It had the advantage that it lived through the internet boom, while TC has pitched its tent after the grass has been all chewed up by past usage. Nevertheless, TC has done well and made a good spot here, on its own terms, and I wouldn't want to see it try to become exactly what TTF was from here - it's its own entity and should be proud of what it's made. But if it had been set up from the start as that, I would likely be seen here more often (which, of course, any of you might feel to be a downside ).

I think the value would be higher if we could get access to the old TTF database. The crawler that caught posts missed a lot. For some reason all the posts I had made on TTF were transferred here buy unfortunately not much of the posts that Mike Suter wrote. The value is in the old posts. I guess there have been a lot of efforts to make Richard give away a copy of the database. If it was not a hardware failure on the media that hold the database backup it might still be possible to handle the data. As times fly the memory of the old TTF will fade and no one will remember what the old guys shared.Maybe in the future some of us will be the old guys.

/Tom

I miss more focus on playing, pedagogy and music. It was already a trend in the old forum to change to more equipment related focus. Maybe everything related to playing was covered and lost interest over time?

I'm member of one Facebook trombone group and it is more playing/music oriented. The drawback is it's difficult to navigate and search.

I say thanks to the people that make this forum as a continuation to the old forum. It's easier to find subjects that interest us. Maybe we should use our full name like we do in Facebook? It will make discussions more down to earth? But I shouldn't say much because I posted a lot rubbish through the years..

Anyway, times change, I'm just glad we have a place to meet!

Leif

And people get locked out and cannot get back in...