TromboneChat

Has anyone actually used any of the platforms that purport to enable live rehearsal online?

It sounds impossible ("latency" and all that) but somehow it's not?

Example:
https://jamkazam.com/

JamKazam has spent the last 6 years building the best platform in the world to help musicians play together live and in-sync over the Internet from different locations with high quality audio and video.

What do I need?


To play with others, you’ll need the JamKazam application, plus the following:

• A computer running either Windows 10 or Mac OS X 10.8 or higher, connected to your home router using an Ethernet cable (WiFi doesn’t work well)

• An audio interface, which is a hardware accessory that lets your computer process your vocal and/or instrumental audio

• A microphone (only required for singing or acoustic instruments) with an XLR cable to connect the mic to the audio interface

• A cable to connect your instrument to the audio interface (only required for electronic instruments)

I downloaded the app and set it up.

It says my directly-connected USB mic will yield 12 ms of latency. I wonder how it is that is worse than what they claim for an XLR mic plugged into an external interface... connected by USB. (as low as 3 ms)

I imagine it is something to do with drivers but the Windows 10 audio drivers are already supposed to have very low latency (1.3 ms)

hmmm...

Check this out: JackTrip
https://www.jacktrip.org/news.html

I've read all about it, and it does work. This is real and legit and serious. They have servers across the country dedicated to making this on-line experience work.

But....

The 'catch' is that it's not free (that's why it's good!)
Every member of your group has to commit to buying the hardware package of ethernet connection that they sell for $150, and then you will also have to pay to buy rehearsal time each month.

It's the real deal is all your members are into it together, as they show in some videos and demonstrations.

I haven't done it, but I could see it working well for a serious established ensemble to get into.

Cmillar wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:53 pm Check this out: JackTrip
https://www.jacktrip.org/news.html

Oh, oh... doesn't work with Windows
Darn.

I have been using Jacktrip to rehearse online. It works really well. It doesn't cost anything to download it or use it and it does work with windows. (Although it is slightly easier with Mac or Linux).

Jacktrip is a free software program that was created by professors at Stanford’s Center for Computer Research in Music and Acoustics (CCRMA), Juan-Pablo Caceres and Chris Chafe, who began demonstrating it at computer conferences and later, as the program grew in versatility, began to help musicians host collaborative concerts with ensembles separated by larger distances.

Here is where you can download the software.
(Please follow the directions here. When it says to install Jack first they really mean it!)
https://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/jacktrip/

What jacktrip.org(The Jacktrip Foundation) is trying to do is make this software more accessible. If you are trying to get a large ensemble of people that have no technology and don't want to think about the technology then looking at what they offer would probably be great. I don't have any experience with this approach though.

If you are interested in collaborating and even recording with a few colleagues then you just need to download the free software and have some basic equipment.

Here is a link to a number of videos by Jan Stoltenberg that cover the basics - probably the easiest way to get started as well as the best resource for learning how to set up a Hub server.


JackTrip Setup for Windows by Synthia Payne that deals with the more difficult windows setup.


Here is a link to a course that JackTrip creator Chris Chafe has created. The videos get into a lot of the technical info behind networked performance and aren’t especially helpful as a “how to” guide but excellent for understanding the basics and history behind this technology. The lecture videos in this course can also be accessed for free.
https://www.kadenze.com/courses/online- ... ogy-x/info
I highly recommend this course if you have no experience with networking or recording technology.

You will need some equipment and you will need to be connected over ethernet (no wifi or powerline connections). You will also need a computer - however I have successfully participated in a jacktrip session with the $35 Raspberry Pi single board computer so the cost need not include investing in a new MacBook Pro.

Here is a basic set of equipment although as with all professional audio you can always spend more if you want to.

1. A computer with some way to plug in an ethernet cable and an audio interface.

2. MOTU M2 Audio interface (others work but this one has some advantages like nice level meters)

3. Shure SM57 Microphone (a good but not great mic that works well for this application because it doesn't pick up a lot of room noise - good for rehearsal if you have lots of noise around or your room isn't acoustically friendly) I have also used a Royer R-10 and a Shure Beta 98h/c clip on. (With either of these you need a second mic for speaking.

4. XLR Mic Cable(s)

5. Open Back Headphones - I like open back headphones because you can hear yourself and others as if you were all in the same room, if you aren't using a condenser mic you should be able to avoid the sound from the cans going back into the mic

6. Ethernet Cable Cat-6 or higher

Here is a link to some recordings I did with a trumpet player colleague while we were learning how to use and optimize this software.


If you want more information please send me an email. I would be happy to help fellow trombonists. The effective limit for synchronous playing is about 500 miles (I'm in Chicago) but it can work beyond that.

PVH wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:45 am I have been using Jacktrip to rehearse online. It works really well. It doesn't cost anything to download it or use it and it does work with windows.

That is promising news

I had found this page that offers only Linux and Mac

Is the Jacktrip "Virtual Studio" something different? they have a blurb that says...

Beginning February 1, 2021, we will charge using metered, monthly subscription plans that enable you to pay only for the on-demand resources that you actually need to use.

so it's free now , but not for long.

Here is the link for the windows version. I found it on the current CCRMA website and it seems to be current.

https://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/jac ... index.html

To the best of my understanding The Jacktrip Foundation's Virtual Studio is something different than what I am using.

In what I am describing you temporarily set your own computer up as a server and invite a colleague or colleagues to connect. I don't think anyone could charge for that beyond what you pay your internet service provider charges for data.

I believe that the Jacktrip Foundation is charging for use of their server (since you choose a server location with their product), the much more polished GUI, and the tech help to make it work since getting it to work can be a bit challenging.

I don't want to say anything against the Jacktrip foundation. I think that the core jacktrip software is awesome and if they have found a way to make this easier for more people to get involved making music online that is great. If you were trying to get a large ensemble of students online their system would probably be the only way to do it and get a good result.

I know that my set up can work for small ensembles. I just had a rehearsal with my quintet online. The latency was excellent and the audio quality was very good. (We all live within 20 miles of each other.) We were getting a very small bit of network noise occasionally (caused by dropped data packets that were lost due to the UDP network protocol jacktrip uses) but it was very minor. About the same level of disturbance as rehearsing in a building downtown on Michigan Ave. and hearing the occasional loud car horn (which was our normal rehearsal situation before March 2020). We are all using our own audio interfaces with gain controls and have spent time learning our mics and that helps a lot. One added benefit is that rehearsals involve a lot of recording and listening back which seems to help improve things very quickly.

One other point of caution with any online synchronous music making. It must be treated like you have walked into an unfamiliar performance space and you have to learn how to play in it. It is a strange combination of very immediate sound feedback coming from people spread out a bit further than we would sit while playing together.

I watched a couple of your videos. It certainly looks like it works well. I'm sure the <20 miles thing is helpful.

I recall in the 60s the Beatles briefly thought they were going to put together a world-wide play-in by satellite, but that never worked out.