Wavering chops?

[hyperbolica]

I'm not sure how to put this. When I try to play something loud, my chops seem to waver a little. Any idea what's going on or how to get it under control?

[robcat2075]

Is it like the note falls apart above a certain volume level?

I've had that happen. On certain notes.

I attributed it to my inconsistent and inadequate practicing, as if I was out-of-practice at playing loud.

But i imagine you practice more consistently than I do.

[hyperbolica]

I play about 45 minutes 5 days a week plus 2-3 ensemble rehearsals a week. Yeah, I was trying to play long loud notes, and my chops kind of wavered like giant vibrato. Was never a problem before. I don't practice loud much. Maybe I need to start doing that again.

[robcat2075]

For me it was like a sudden onset thing. One day I couldn't play an A louder than mf. I couldn't crescendo from mf to ff

It was worse than a vibrato, more like a flapping.

I tried to work it out by practicing the G below it louder. That was out of practice too, but it didn't flap.

When i got that sounding better I worked on getting a loud Ab, then i'd slide into the A and try to keep the loud note going.

After a few days it all went away, but I have no idea if what i did was what fixed the problem

[Vegasbound]

Talk to Doug Elliott

[Doug Elliott]

Wavering, like a double buzz, is caused by some sort of instability. There can be several different causes, or a combination of more than one.

Some aspect of the mouthpiece or horn is bigger than you can handle. Or a leak, which could have the same effect.

Mouthpiece placement too close to 50/50, which tends to be unstable.

Horn angle, jaw position, or mechanics (pivot etc) not right for your face.

Too little mouthpiece pressure. Or too much on one lip and not enough on the other.

Just simple fatigue, too much playing with not enough rest.

Playing too loud when you're not warmed up. Or louder than your chops can handle.

Mouth cavity (tongue position) wrong for the note you're playing.

Teeth opening too far apart. In your particular case I would suspect that first.

There are probably more possible reasons but it's late.

[hyperbolica]

It's not a double buzz, more like involuntary wide vibrato. I've seen older players (like 80s kind of old) do something similar. It feels like weakness. I have always been able to maintain good sound at volume. I fear it's age related but hope to God it's not. I'll try to recreate the situation with your list in mind and maybe see if I can get a video. I was playing Night on Bald Mt with a local orchestra and those big wide open whole notes on the staff started to warble. The teeth too far apart idea sounds like it might apply. I'll try to recreate the situation. Thx for the suggestions.

[Doug Elliott]

I know it's completely different from a double buzz, I was just saying they're both a form of instability with many of the same causes.

Yes, some older players get that. It may or may not be something like Essential tremor, which I think is one of the things that's misdiagnosed as dystonia. Most often it's one or more of the things I listed. Simple mechanics, not neurological.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Doug has given some very specific ideas for diagnosis. I think it is all sound advice. I am going to throw another wrench into the engine....sorry if it confuses things.

One of my primary teachers....Thomas Cramer....preached the following advice to his students. Unfortunately, I didn't practice what he preached until I was out of school a few years....I should have listened because it changed my playing significantly.

T. Cramer said that every serious trombone player should play very loud for at least 20-25 minutes daily (a large percentage of the loud playing should be long tones). His rationale was that a trombonist who practices loud regularly has the air control to play loud or soft very well at any time. However, a trombonist who does mostly soft practice will only be able to play loud with a decent sound for a very short period of time. He was so correct.

How does this relate to the wavering chops? I had an involuntary wiggle or vibrato in my sound as a young player, particularly on forte and louder. When I added 20 minutes of loud (attempting to be vibrato free) playing to my daily routine, the involuntary wavering started to vanish. I think there are several things that happen when you play a lot of loud, long tones. The proper mouthpiece pressure eventually adjusts itself, the proper speed/direction of air gets established, the throat starts to relax, etc....

Obviously, checking in with a teacher like Doug would be a good idea. If you have the mechanics of your embouchure working the way you want, you should consider added a loud, long tone element to your practice. It might take a few weeks, but doing the daily loud playing should make a positive change in your sound.