TromboneChat

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:07 pm**

What do you do when you feel like you’ve reached a stagnant point in your improvement. Not like, I feel like I can’t can’t get better, far from it, but it feels like no matter what I do, it’s not solving the gaps in my playing.

As an example, I would say my largest issue in playing currently is unstable intonation. I know this an issue. I’ve used the analysis feature on Tonal Energy, I’ve recorded myself playing and pinpointed my tendencies, I’ve expanded my long tones routine trying to pay more careful attention to stability, I’ve practiced with drones, etc. And this is something I’ve been working on for months, so I’m not really sure what to do about the fact that I’m not sensing an ounce of improvement. My flexibility and range are both in similar situations, where i feel like im doing everything right, but im just not getting results. Im sure this isn’t a new situation to anyone who plays regularly, so I was wondering how others usually face these plateaus in improving.

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:30 pm**

Take a lesson or a few. Get an outside perspective.

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:55 pm**

I can probably help you a whole lot with a Skype lesson.
Inconsistencies like those are usually from doing things "randomly" and when you learn how to use your own body's natural form more purposefully, it makes everything more stable and consistent, and a lot easier.

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:58 pm**

There is only so much an app can tell you about intonation (unless it's melodyne and you're inputting the keys you're playing in). I don't bother much with tuners anymore because they will always seem like they are all over the place. Sure, if you are tuning a certain pitch, they are great.

Think about it this way, though. Does the app know if you're playing a scale or what key you're in? If you listen to a lot of classical music your brain with be primed to use two tuning systems, Pythagorean and Just intonation. Neither of these work very well with the tuner.

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:24 pm**

My form of stagnation (not that I think of it that way) is "finding the notes." I picked up the trombone in 2007 and am still waiting to be able to play any note I wish, without having to check (and find out I'm wrong, most of the time.) My primary instrument is the cello, so you'd think I'd know without guessing what middle C sounds like, for example. The former lead trb in my orchestra used a Snark tuner, so I suppose I shouldn't feel like it's cheating when I use one. This is a topic I don't recall discussing with my teacher, and my lessons ended with the arrival of covid.

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:53 pm**

Kjong3545 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:07 pm What do you do when you feel like you’ve reached a stagnant point in your improvement...

I find inspiration. It can come from a variety of sources. But you need to find it and use it.

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:05 pm**

taking lessons
playing with other people
talking about it with other musicians

These are all good things to do. Sometimes you just need to get out of your head and just discuss philosophies with other people and see if that helps. One thing that I find helped me a lot with intonation is playing piano and singing. Get off the horn and start using your ears and mind.

Posted: **Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:43 am**

LanceHandsome wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:24 pm My primary instrument is the cello, so you'd think I'd know without guessing what middle C sounds like, for example.

Pitch recognition is more timbre dependent than we realize. I've heard singers match a note from another person or from a piano easily, yet be unable to do so if the note came from organ or guitar. I think it's a learned skill.

What is the pitch of your tinnitus?

Posted: **Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:54 pm**

LanceHandsome wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:24 pm My primary instrument is the cello, so you'd think I'd know without guessing what middle C sounds like, for example.

How interesting that you have picked up the trombone! I tell cello players that playing the trombone is like playing the cello... if you could only finger the strings with your thumb and could only play down-bows.

I picked up the cello several years ago. I'm not proficient but I will still venture that it is easier to land a note out of nowhere on the cello that it is on trombone. The means of pitch selection is all visible in front of you.

Some brass players may be able to nail any note at any time but I've never seen one do it in person, not without some preparatory tootling.

Posted: **Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:10 pm**

I think we've all gone through this. I went to grad. school from 2007-2009 and feel that I hit a brick wall several years ago. I signed up for a semester of lessons and it's been refreshing so far! Fresh perspectives, picking up on teaching strategies that I can use with my own students, being introduced to new repertoire, etc. Highly recommend!

Posted: **Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:02 pm**

Pitch recognition is more timbre dependent than we realize. I've heard singers match a note from another person or from a piano easily, yet be unable to do so if the note came from organ or guitar. I think it's a learned skill.

Huh.

What is the pitch of your tinnitus?

A, I think,

Posted: **Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:16 pm**

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:54 pm
LanceHandsome wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:24 pm My primary instrument is the cello, so you'd think I'd know without guessing what middle C sounds like, for example.

How interesting that you have picked up the trombone! I tell cello players that playing the trombone is like playing the cello... if you could only finger the strings with your thumb and could only play down-bows.
There are some up-bows (ups-bow?) in there as well. It took me a long time to be able to read tenor clef--I still read alto more easily, despite being a cellist for 40 years and a violist for only 4 or so, However, I'm hopeless with tenor clef on trb, even when the passage would be on the cello's A string.

I picked up the cello several years ago. I'm not proficient but I will still venture that it is easier to land a note out of nowhere on the cello that it is on trombone. The means of pitch selection is all visible in front of you.
Plus there's the muscle memory, e.g. G on the A string being close to where the hand naturally rests, and the harmonic A next to it is a cheat I've used countless times. I once saw someone shifting far more than he needed to, but he hit every note spot on. I'm the opposite--I've memorized intervals between strings, so less shifting...but I still land painfully out of tune far too often.

Congrats and welcome to the String-O-Sphere.

Some brass players may be able to nail any note at any time but I've never seen one do it in person, not without some preparatory tootling.
I'm genuinely surprised. BTW, I didn't see the link to the sound file on your site. And it's "eine Posaune."

Posted: **Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:31 pm**

LanceHandsome wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:16 pm
I'm genuinely surprised. BTW, I didn't see the link to the sound file on your site.

On "I Play My Horn"?

Those are all YouTube videos. I've found you have to give those a fair spell for the players to load up on that blogging platform.

It is possible those are so seldomly watched that someone has to traipse to the back stacks to get them off a shelf and sneakernet them in when they are called.

Posted: **Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:41 pm**

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:31 pm It is possible those are so seldomly watched that someone has to traipse to the back stacks to get them off a shelf and sneakernet them in when they are called.

The vids showed up this time. Intertoobz access is doubleplus slow these days.

Posted: **Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:54 am**

Find new music literature and dig into it. I find that new music usually gets me out of a rut.

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2022 4:40 am**

If you have more than one horn, play the other one for a bit.

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2022 6:00 am**

On intonation, play melodies. Hopefully the ear will scream at you when you stray.

Also good would be to play along with the old bland swing singers, the kind that didn't swing very much, ballads and such. If your own ear does not scream at you, then the clash with the singers should.

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:07 pm**

It's also good to recognize that improvement isn't really linear, it happens in plateaus with peaks and valleys. Usually I notice after working on something I won't feel like I've made progress, just to feel like I've had a major breakthrough some time later.

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:51 pm**

Hi Kjong3545 !

I think that to give some advices about those issues , would be useful to know more about you .

A) how long do you feel stagnating ( one month , six months , one year , ecc ) ?
B) are you following a daily routine on basics (like the E. Remington warm-up & daily exercises , ecc)?
C) are you studying with a teacher , or are you self-taught ?
D) are you often switching among differents horns and mpcs ( bach 16/ 12C , bach 42 /5G, bass trbn , ecc) ?

Apart from those things , I think that these kind of issues you are talking about can be often related to an incorrect embouchure formation , and/or to an inefficient use of the air stream .

Regards to everyone
Giancarlo

TromboneChat

Stagnating

Stagnating

Re: Stagnating

Re: Stagnating

Re: Stagnating

Re: Stagnating

Re: Stagnating

Re: Stagnating

Re: Stagnating

Re: Stagnating

Re: Stagnating

Re: Stagnating

Re: Stagnating

Re: Stagnating

Re: Stagnating

Re: Stagnating

Re: Stagnating

Re: Stagnating

Re: Stagnating

Re: Stagnating