TromboneChat

Hey Guys,
First time posting on anything, so be gentle please
I want to arrange Notturno from, A Midsummer Night‘s Dream by Felix Mendelssohn, for a quartet consisting of players in my local wind band.This would be easy enough but I can‘t use the original key signature, because that would mean 6 sharps for all Bb instruments.
The rehearsal time is very limited (30 minutes before a gig) and the players are just not skilfull enough to sight read in more complicated keys.
Now comes my question: Are there any keys that sound particularly good with brass and why do you think that is?
Thanks in advance for all answers,
Mike

Nothing is stopping you from using a flat key instead of a sharp one. Since the original is (most likely -- I haven't had a chance to look on IMSLP) in E major, nothing wrong with pulling it down 1/2 step to Eb major (3 flats; one flat for Bb instruments and no flats for Eb instruments). Singers transpose songs all the time to put them in their particular range, so why not this.

Good luck.

I like Bruce's suggestion of going to Eb, presuming that puts the lines in advantageous ranges for the instruments.

If not, Bb or Ab might be investigated.

michaelthetrombonist wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:47 am Now comes my question: Are there any keys that sound particularly good with brass and why do you think that is?

In principle, key shouldn't matter too much since there are only 7 states for a valved or slide instrument to be in to produce any of its pitches.

Consider that a 2nd position A on a trombone shouldn't be any less beautiful because it is in an E major passage instead of a Bb Major passage.

But...

michaelthetrombonist wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:47 am the players are just not skilfull enough to sight read in more complicated keys

Confidence is part of playing well overall and the unfamiliar key will be a deterrent to confidence.

It depends partly on range, but in order of preference, I'd say Bb, C, Eb, G, Ab. So 3#s at the most and 4bs at the most, remembering that trumpets use 2 more #s than trombones, and the horn is in the middle. But again, pushing around keys can also change the range.

michaelthetrombonist wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:47 am Are there any keys that sound particularly good with brass and why do you think that is?

Trumpets, trombones and french horn all read in different keys, so getting something that lines up for all of them can be like chasing your tail. Trombone and tuba read concert pitch. Trumpet and trombone are built in the same key, but trumpets read transposed music. I find french horn the hardest instrument to write for. So. Trombone sounds good in a lot of keys. My favorites might be A and Ab. D is also good. Bb is the native key for the instrument. B, E and F# are probably my least favorite.

Kudos for asking.

Some years back I didn't. We had a small brass group playing a Christmas type service in a chapel in Germany. We had arrangements for the carols, but it seemed a good idea to add the Doxology.

I wrote out the parts in key of G to match the organ. It never occurred to me that could be a problem. But it was, a couple of the players crashed and burned.

Maybe a slight difference of opinion, but I think that range considerations are of first importance before deciding on a key signature. Making the range make as most sense as possible gives you the biggest return for work invested in terms of getting a better performance. 2nd: pay a lot of attention to idiomatic styles for specific instruments. Key signature being 3rd, at least for non-pro musicians.

For what it’s worth, David T Clydesdale did a Messiah recording of some favorite sections out of the work. He did all the orchestration, and thinking outside the box he even used a harmonica for one passage…it worked! He used a double brass choir in a few arrangements, and one in particular he noted he put it in the key of G, “To make the brass really shine”. I wouldn’t say it made it sound any better than it would have in another key, but it did sound mighty good!

Thanks for all the great input! I really appreciate it and of course I’ll try and factor in the range of each instrument as well as the range of the players.
Maybe this is kind of a language barrier but i don’t quite understand what idiomatic style means could anyone maybe explain?

BrassSection wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:27 pm For what it’s worth, David T Clydesdale did a Messiah recording of some favorite sections out of the work. He did all the orchestration, and thinking outside the box he even used a harmonica for one passage…it worked! He used a double brass choir in a few arrangements, and one in particular he noted he put it in the key of G, “To make the brass really shine”. I wouldn’t say it made it sound any better than it would have in another key, but it did sound mighty good!

I was also wondering if some key signatures would favor the sound colour of brass instruments. Personally I’m not able to hear these things I think, that was also a reason for my original post.

michaelthetrombonist wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:17 pm Maybe this is kind of a language barrier but i don’t quite understand what idiomatic style means could anyone maybe explain?

Characteristic style. Writing within the limitations of the instrument. Writing to the instrument's inherent advantages.

Examples...

Wind instruments have to stop to breathe eventually, some more frequently than others. Strings can bow pretty much continuously without noticeable breaks.

Woodwinds are facile at rapid passage work, trombones and horns are not.

A flute can only manage a mezzo piano at most in its lowest range and but struggles to do less than fortissimo in its highest. An oboe has the opposite problem. Does a bassoon even have a fortissimo?

A trombone can play a fairly long legato line above the staff, but below the staff, the air runs out too soon. One loud pedal note can exhaust an entire lungful of air in seconds but I can hold a quiet middle C for forty.

An organ can sustain a note indefinitely. A piano's sustain is mostly imaginary.

And many more.

Half of orchestration is knowing what is practical to ask the instruments to do and where it is practical in their range to do it.

These characteristics have a lot to do with why trombone music is different from violin music which is different from clarinet music.